[HM2Viking]

But you still go to Vietnam to do Health care work....(For which I do admire you)!



I actually recommended the book for inclusion in the public health course at MN State-Mankato.

[Yosemite, RN]

I'll vote of a health plan that has a few "attachements."

#1: NO ONE can have ANY children that they can't FULLY support.

#2: I have the option to "opt out" of supporting anyone elses health care, i.e., I'm taxed to support others' healthcare ONLY if I choose to do so.

#3: Liberal media stars can lobby/advertise for social programs ONLY if they contribute MOST of their money; I'm tired of rich stars demanding the government use MY tax dollars for other people.

#4: Refer, again, to #1.

#5: Drug companies can only charge US customers what the CHEAPEST price they charge to any other country.

#6: Illegal aliens are treated, then deported. Their country of origin is billed IN FULL.

#7: Hillary uses up HER money for social programs first BEFORE coming after what little I have.

[MAISY, RN-ER]

Who will make the decision who can have children? The government? Wouldn't that be too much interference?

You have valid points, and I believe people should put their money where their mouths are, but that works two ways. You have an American president who with family money went to Yale and made C grades. College wasn't important-he didn't have to sacrifice to be there. This is a man who doesn't have a clue what sacrifice, student loans, not being able to afford food, medicine, clothing or decent housing is. Yet this man and so many like him tell the people "to pull themselves up by their bootstraps to get the American dream" It's very easy to say.....somewhat like your statement about liberal actors and their own money. Lip service is just that, no matter who spews it!

I agree the drug companies are taking advantage of our system and should be stopped! Why are kids coming out of college and making six figures to become drug reps. That's sick! Doctors prescribing for perks instead of what is necessary for the patient's best recovery.

Again, illegals-why does everyone blame them for these problems. My husband's friend's wife took ill in France-she was hospitalized for 3 weeks. No bill has ever been sent(5 years ago). This is not the only instance of foreign hospitalization and care I have heard written off. What exactly do you think they are getting? I work in an ER, I can tell you not much...

As for Hillary, you don't have to like her....you don't have to like what she stands for. Her history of public service began in college, as did her husband's. I would wager that those with the loudest voices against her, offer the least to their communities. They are the ones with NIMBY, "in my day....", "not my problem", "damn immigrants", "speak English", blah blah blah blah.

I say be part of the solution....instead of supporting the problem. Come up with good ideas, find out why people suffer and see how you can alleviate it.

At least CRNA2007 finally has someone to thank, however, it appears your eyes are opened. Maybe someday his will be.

Maisy

[HM2Viking]

I think its important to discuss this constructively:

A pair of Democratic presidential candidates sketched out two very different plans to reform health care at forums sponsored at the Kaiser Family Foundation today in Washington.

Dennis Kucinich’s plan is by far more radical than that of Joseph Biden, who spoke later in the morning. Mr. Kucinich wants to shift the country from a privatized, for-profit health care system to a single-payer, not-for-profit one controlled by the government, similar to the British universal health care program.

“What a novel idea,” Mr. Kucinich said, “government in the public interest.”

Under the Kucinich plan — which would be financed by payroll taxes — private health insurance companies would be bought out by the government using treasury bonds. “It’s not rocket science,” he said.
When one of the panel speakers questioned whether his plan is realistic, Mr. Kucinich quickly pointed to the 83 members of Congress that support him and said that the American people are behind him too.
In contrast, Mr. Biden’s plan is not a mandate for universal health care. The Delaware senator outlined a less revolutionary system that would make the government responsible for catastrophic medical bills over $55,000 and would expand the SCHIP bill to cover every child in America. People over age 55 would be able to buy into Medicare as well. With a price tag of $90 to $120 billion, it’s not far off from those proposed by Hillary Rodham Clinton and John Edwards.
Source: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...th-care-plans/ accessed 10/26/2007.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by Yosemite, RN

I'll vote of a health plan that has a few "attachements."

#1: NO ONE can have ANY children that they can't FULLY support.
Probably unconstitutional and does not address the real issues.

#2: I have the option to "opt out" of supporting anyone elses health care, i.e., I'm taxed to support others' healthcare ONLY if I choose to do so.
Are you saying you would cancel your health insurance? Premiums are in effect a tax that we pay to cover the risks of unbearable health costs. Your fellow policy members pay to help cover your health care costs.

#3: Liberal media stars can lobby/advertise for social programs ONLY if they contribute MOST of their money; I'm tired of rich stars demanding the government use MY tax dollars for other people.
They are free to exercise their constitutional rights to advocate for policy just as you are. It is part of their first amendment rights to free speech.

#4: Refer, again, to #1.

#5: Drug companies can only charge US customers what the CHEAPEST price they charge to any other country.
Something that partisans from both sides of the aisle can agree on....

#6: Illegal aliens are treated, then deported. Their country of origin is billed IN FULL.
The data says that immigrants use health services at a lower rate than other people in America.
#7: Hillary uses up HER money for social programs first BEFORE coming after what little I have.

See:
Americans already pay for national health insurance — they just don’t get it. In this 2002 Health Affairs paper, David Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler point out that the standard accounting miscategorizes two major public health expenditures as private: the tax credit for private health insurance and the cost of the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program.
When these costs are accounted for, it becomes evident that Americans already pay the world’s highest health care taxes. In fact, the amount of public health spending in the U.S. is greater than the combined public and private spending of nations which provide universal comprehensive health insurance. A single-payer system could provide such coverage to all Americans with no need for additional health dollars.
Source: http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_res...r_everyone.php accessed 10/26/2007. Full text at http://www.pnhp.org/publications/payingnotgetting.pdf .

[SmilingBluEyes]

CRNA:

Democrats AND Republicans are unwilling to "tackle the illegal problem" because they ALL know we profit from having "them" here. We like our cheap prices, our fruits and veggies for cheap, too much to "get rid" of them (primarily Mexicans are what people think of when they discuss illegal immigrants anyhow----they are the ones providing the labor so many are unwilling/unable to do).

What exactly has President Bush (A Republican of course) done about our "illegal problem"? Bupkis, nada, nothing, zippo. For good reason. Both parties KNOW it's not "profitbable" really to do much at all.

And , as to the education issue: neither of my friends have degrees in "basket weaving" (business and economics, actually)---- but even if they did, remember, it was YOU who brought up the issue of education in this thread as a "way out" or There are masters-educated folks who are way under-employed and cannot access benefitted jobs. And COBRA is NOT the answer either! It's too expensive for too many!

[SmilingBluEyes]

CRNA one more thing: Having also been in the military myself, I saw PLENTY of folks who joined to do just that:

Either to escape poverty, get a job that had benefits like healthcare coverage---- or find a way to get an education they could not otherwise afford! I was one of them, myself. Being unemployed and without resources, the military was "my way out". I can hardly believe you met no one like me; there were so many.

[Spidey's mom]

Originally Posted by MAISY, RN-ER

As for Hillary, you don't have to like her....you don't have to like what she stands for. Her history of public service began in college, as did her husband's. I would wager that those with the loudest voices against her, offer the least to their communities. They are the ones with NIMBY, "in my day....", "not my problem", "damn immigrants", "speak English", blah blah blah blah.



Maisy

I disagree with the highlighted part . . . I am one of the voices against Hillary Clinton's agenda and I don't "offer the least" to my community.

Generalizations get us ALL in trouble.

steph

[Jolie]

I read it . . . . still a conservative.
steph

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

But you still go to Vietnam to do Health care work....(For which I do admire you)!

I realize that I have no right to butt in here, but I feel compelled to do so nonetheless.

Viking, you made a comment which I believe was intended to express your admiration for stevielynn's incredible volunteer service. But it came across (at least to me) as condescending, as though it is somehow incomprehensible that a conservative would give of her time and service. As a fellow conservative who volunteers weekly at church and school, I find this terribly offensive. Conservatives are not evil, selfish, or heartless people. Nor do we revel in others' misfortune. We "put our money where are mouths are" by donating time and funds to services that enable others to help themselves. I realize that conservatives and liberals have fundamentally different beliefs about how best to help those in need, but making back-handed remarks about the good works of another serves no one. It disappoints me to see a capable debater resort to such tactics.

[pickledpepperRN]

Originally Posted by stevielynn

I
Generalizations get us ALL in trouble.

steph

I am guilty of generalizing too.
But I think we can try to be honest.
To me there is a BIG difference between a person who contributes.
I can respect a person who doesn't trust "the government" who does try to help through charity or volunteering.


To me the curruption of individuals embezzling from the United Way or the Red Cross won't cause me to abandon charitable giving.
Likewise currupt individuals won't make me give up on our government of the people.


But I find myself no option but prayer for those whose attitude is, "Health care is a privilege that must be earned. If you earn enough to provide for your family but are denied insurance, you must give up all comfort and security to pay for medical treatment. Sell your house. When you are destitute and sick go to the ER."