i will try to keep this very long story short. since april 2008, i have been struggeling to meet all the requirements of cgfns. but as many people here can attest to, dealing with cgfns isn't as easy as it should be.

since january 2009, i was lead to believe that all my submited documents (license transcript, nursing school transcript etc.) had been reviewed and that i had been found eligible to register for the exam. i signed up for an exam in march and july, but cgfns weren't able to accomodate both my 1. and 2. choice. now i've signed up for an exam in november and by accident i find out that my documents, were reviwed but found incomplete. it turns out that they need a more specific break-down of all the subjects i've studied. the only problem is that they never informed me of this and only after i've been in contact with them, are they sending a letter to my nursing school asking for the specifics. i'm not sure what a "more specific break-down" means, since my nursing school already filled out the form accounting for all the theoretical and clinical hours of each subject.

that's why i'm calling all danish nurses that have been through all the many steps required by cgfns, including review of official documents, and have managed to received a certificate. i'm thinking that if you've managed to get a certificate then so should i, after all we do have the exact same degree.

- i would really like to know how you were able to meet the requirements of the theoretical and clinical hours of each subject and how your nursing school figured out what the ects points equaled in amount of hours?

any help is greatly appreciated

thanks, sine

Could it be becuase of the state you're going through? Each state has it's own set of requirements for nursing. Even if you attempt to use another state and plan on endorsing back into the orginal state, that wont work because you will still have to meet the state requirements. Some have tried to do that and found it doesn't work to try to bypass the requirements set forth by each state.

Were you able to find out specifically what you were lacking? I know you said something about the breakdown of the clinical and theory hours. Maybe your school didn't fill out the forms properly or vaguely. Can you try to find out from CGFNS why they're requesting further breakdown. Hope this helps and good luck

hi nursecubanitarn2b,

thanks for the advice

i don't have a nursing licens for any states, but i'm trying to get one for ma...although, it's proving to be more difficult than i ever could've imagined.

i called cgfns yesterday, and they attempted to explain the problem with the current breakdown of hours. but the person i talked to was in such a hurry to get off the phone with me, that i never really understod the explanation. i'm calling them back today, to have someone else explain it again. plus i've been able to obtain the form my nursing school mailed to cgfns, with the breakdown of hours. i've also been in touch with my school and informed them of the problem. i suggested they contact other nursing schools, that have had to fill out the form, since they know how to do so properly. plus i've been in touch with my nursing union, in case they might be able to help.

I live in MA, it is one of the harder states for foreign trained nurses to get authorization to sit for the NCLEX.

You have to certain hours for each area, Pysch, Pedis, Med-Surg, and OB. Also not to discourage you, MA has a very tight job market. Most Boston area hospitals are looking for BSN. Unless you have a reason to come to MA ( husband or family) you may find other states more accommodating.

I've been through a lot this past year (being married and having to travel back and forth between DK and USA, the visa process having taken 1½ years, dealing with CGFNS) so I'm not afraid of the hardship

The Danish nursing degree is internationally recognized, so I'm more than sure my degree lives up to the American degree. The problem is just dealing with CGFNS, I follow their orders down to the specifics and yet they come up with new things I have to do. Also the job market seems perfect for me if most Boston area hospitals are looking for BSN, because that's the degree I have, together with all other Danish nurses, of course.

I googled Danish nursing schools, what I couldn't figure out is how many hours your program entailed.

This issue I am have is trying to figure out hour many hours the school has in each area. According to VIA University....

"The duration of the course is 3 ½ years and has 210 ECTS credit points. The course is divided into 7 terms and 14 modules. This means that one academic year is divided into two terms, and each term is divided into two modules. Every term has 30 ECTS, and every one of the module has 15 ECTS. Each module has its own field of study relevant to the nursing profession and is a completed entity with its own assessments."

ECT does not mean anything to me. US colleges use credit hours. Nursing uses the actual hours too. How many hours did you sit in class ? That would be theory hours. How many hows did you have in the clinical situation ? A clinical hour has to be under direct supervision and not independent practice. There has to be an instructor physically present.

As I mentioned before certain hours are required in Pedi, OB, and Psych.

Last your degree is BN not a BSN which is very different. In the US, students attend college for 4 years. The US student has to take courses unrelated to nursing as every college student has to. So if you apply to a hospital in Boston you may not be counted as have a BSN. This is a very touchy point since many American Nurses have a BS in

another field and ASN in nursing and they are not hired since they don't have a BSN, although their education has exceeded what the BSN nurse has.

I know this post is confusing, but you need your college to put the actual hours not ECTS in to conform to US nursing standards. Some courses you took are not needed such as home care.n'

I don't know if you live in Boston or suburb. If you live near another state , you may want to explore their requirements. Mass is one of the harder states for a foreign nurse to get license. You have to take two tests CGFNS which is only administered several times a year and the NCLEX. You may want to take a review course since International Trained Nurses have a harder time then US nurses passing the exam. Your written English seems excellent but you will have to take an English test also.

Currently the job market is very bleak in the Boston Area, especially for new grads ( this is what an International Nurse is considered) . Many of the June graduates have not found positions. Perhaps by the time you qualify for the NCLEX the job market will change. Also do not think if a Universal Health Care plan is passed it will help the job market, since MA already has Universal Coverage and it has not created any nursing positions.

I'm impressed by your research, your info on the Danish nursing degree is very exact!

ECTS points are used all over Europe, to make it easier for e.g. an English nurse to work in DK. As I wrote in the first post, my nursing school has been able to change the ECTS points into credit hours, they just had a hard time figuring out the exact hours of clinical practice as well as theoretical instruction.

I've been trying to search the web for the minimum training hours of an American nurse, to compare them with that of a Danish nurse. I've looked at NCSBN's website, but didn't find anything. Can you tell me where I might be able to find this info, the more precise the better?

It seems as if you don't have much insight into the Danish educational system, and for good reason since, it is very different from the US. We have something similar to college also proceeding high school, only this takes 3 years. Here we either study language related subjects or science related subjects. With nursing and medicien in mind I chose science and among others, I studied math, physics and chemistry at a high level. I get the feeling that you underestimate our system and I really don't think that's fair. I believe that our 3 years of "college" are just as good as your 4 years. Plus there're many factors to take into consideration, such as the amount of hours spent in the classroom, exams etc. I'm still convinced that my degree is a BSN, mainly because that's what's written on my diploma.

I live in Boston, so there's no chance I'll work out of state. I'll just have to push through all the many exams and reviews and hope for the best, once I have my MA nursing licens. Although, the exams are a bit harder than expected, I've been studying in my spare time and haven't had any problems passing the test exams I've taken. If that hadn't been the case, I would definitely take your advice and take a review course.

I really appreciate being able to discuss these things with you and it definitely helps me understand things better.

Last your degree is BN not a BSN which is very different. In the US, students attend college for 4 years. The US student has to take courses unrelated to nursing as every college student has to. So if you apply to a hospital in Boston you may not be counted as have a BSN. This is a very touchy point since many American Nurses have a BS in another field and ASN in nursing and they are not hired since they don't have a BSN, although their education has exceeded what the BSN nurse has.

Depending on the clinical and theory hours, BN can indeed = BSN. CGFNS do not care about the non-nursing subjects that US students take. They base their equivalency decision on the nursing subjects only.

Obviously BS in another field + ASN in nursing does not equal either a BSN or a BN, because they do not do the same NURSING hours.

Sine, CGFNS suck to deal with. The only way to get any sense out of them is to get a supervisor on the phone - but that is not easy since they don't like to get them for you. A friend of mine graduated the same year, with exactly the same degree as me, and she had a lot of trouble with CGFNS, while I didn't. They don't seem to know what they are doing most of the time.

I have worked in the Boston Area my whole career, the employers are very firm regarding a BSN, not BN, not BA, or BS. Some nurses had a BA in nursing which is what the college granted which is essentially the same as the BSN. These nurses had to prove to HR that their BA was equal to a BSN by providing their transcripts. My point is a 3 year BN program would not equal a BSN unless their transcript showed a course to course comparison.

CGFNS may not care about the BA or BSN but Boston employers do. Most ASN programs have the same nursing courses as the BSN program and more clinical. Yet these nurses are turned away from Boston Hospitals. What makes even more unfair many of these nurses had worked in these hospitals prior to getting the ASN but deemed not employable due to the lack of a BSN ( they had a BS in another field and some had decades of working in their hospital).

That is the reality of Boston Market. Other markets maybe and probably are more forgiving. If you go to the Boston Suburbs most hospitals don't care about having a BSN.

I would take your transcript and make an excel spread sheet.

Mark how many theory hours ( which area Medical, Surgical, OB, Psych, and Peds). Do the same for clinical.

Then total Theory ( for each clinical area) and total Clinical Hours ( each clinical area), that is what the board of nursing is looking for).

Then ask your school to officially do the same and see if this acceptable to CGFNS.

I have a BA in a non nursing field and I'm working towards my ASN. In the hospital where I work at they don't care if you have a BA in a non nursing field, or if it's a BSN. BSN is preferred, but they will take someone with a BA in a non nursing field who also holds an ASN. Now for me, I'm going straight for my MSN after my ASN, my BA courses will bypass a lot of general education courses for the MSN program, which means bypassing the BSN portion, and obtaining it a lot quicker. If someone has a BA in another field, it's alright to get your ASN, but don't stop there that way you can have a more attractive resume.

I have worked in the Boston Area my whole career, the employers are very firm regarding a BSN, not BN, not BA, or BS. Some nurses had a BA in nursing which is what the college granted which is essentially the same as the BSN. These nurses had to prove to HR that their BA was equal to a BSN by providing their transcripts. My point is a 3 year BN program would not equal a BSN unless their transcript showed a course to course comparison.

CGFNS may not care about the BA or BSN but Boston employers do. Most ASN programs have the same nursing courses as the BSN program and more clinical. Yet these nurses are turned away from Boston Hospitals. What makes even more unfair many of these nurses had worked in these hospitals prior to getting the ASN but deemed not employable due to the lack of a BSN ( they had a BS in another field and some had decades of working in their hospital).

That is the reality of Boston Market. Other markets maybe and probably are more forgiving. If you go to the Boston Suburbs most hospitals don't care about having a BSN.

The post was asking about equivalency of the Danish BN to a US BSN for immigration/licensure purposes.

The foreign-trained nurse with the MA license has already passed both CGFNS and sometimes, additional transcript evaluation by the US nursing board, so they could be quite confident as to the equivalency of their education. BS in another field + ASN does not = BSN. Mostly, BN does equal BSN because they are both bachelor degrees in nursing.

Sine,

Could it be possible to have a three-way phone coversation with CGFNS and your school records administrator or Dean in Denmark so it's clear how they want the hours presented to them? CGFNS is very hard to deal with and is notorious for delays in processing. Unfortunately, they have a monopoly on the foreign educational credentialing business. Until CGFNS is happy with how the breakdown of hours are presented to them, I'm afraid they are not going to proceed with approving you to take the CGFNS exam. I hope other Danish nurses who went through the process could respond and help you.