Sutter Health New Grad program unpaid.

Nurses New Nurse

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Hey everyone, so I'm being offered a job through Sutter Health affiliate hospital and I've been told that they've changed the New Grad programs to being 3 months of unpaid training. I will be treated as an employee while I work, but just not get paid. I won't be contracted with the hospital at this time, and if I decided I wanted to leave, I can. But if I stay throught the whole training, I will be offered a full time position. I was told that this was the way Sutter decided to do things to save themselves money from training New Grads and then them leaving after they get their year experience.

Has any of you heard of this before? And what are your thoughts? I am grateful for having this job offer, just somewhat shocked at the no pay thing.

An acquaintance told me of a recruiter for a major hospital chain that actually went on trips to the Philippines to recruit. Like myself, this person found it very disappointing that money was provided for this effort instead of having the recruiter visit American nursing schools to recruit. Paid or unpaid, there will always be an abundance of people from other countries ready, willing, and able to come here for orientation.

Specializes in Professional Development Specialist.
I agree Tammy, FNP/GNP that I would rather give my time to a non-profit. Unfortunately desperate times have made new grads desperate. I know because I am one of those desperate new grads. I don't know if I would want to work for free, but I am sick of becoming a "stale" new grad. I would love to volunteer for a non-profit but even volunteering is hard to come by in this economy. It is unfortunate that for profit hospitals are taking advantage of this situation.

Very true. You want to delivery mail? Sit and talk to patients? Then volunteer. But if you've ever worked in a hospital ask yourself if you could even name 1 volunteer. I asked lots of nurses and not a single one could name a volunteer or even recognize them by sight. An unpaid internship sounds a lot better than that!

Specializes in critical care, PACU.

sutter nor cal sucks

my mom was a new grad in an ED and they didnt let the nurses sit in chairs

they had to stand to chart and all tables were at high heights to discourage use of chairs

sutter seriously sucks

Specializes in ER; CCT.
Very true. You want to delivery mail? Sit and talk to patients? Then volunteer. But if you've ever worked in a hospital ask yourself if you could even name 1 volunteer. I asked lots of nurses and not a single one could name a volunteer or even recognize them by sight. An unpaid internship sounds a lot better than that!

This is a very narrow vision of the spirit and tangible benefits from volunteering. I would say that better than 50% of the work that I do is on a volunteer basis. From working as a captain in the California State Military Reserve as a nursing officer to care for soldiers going and coming from war to providing primary care services at our local homeless mission once per week to working as a public health nurse with a local police department providing community-based interventions that make a real impact on individuals and families.

I would say the thousands of lives I have helped as a volunteer over the years have not gone unnoticed and more than just a few remember my name. As far as a resume builder, and as an employer myself, nothing looks better to me than people who volunteer. Although community-based activity may not translate well as far as the technical skills of the acute care arena, it certainly speaks volumes of ones character, dedication and nature--all of which speak volumes as to their potential as an employee within any organization.

Specializes in Cardiac, Derm, OB.

Absolutely, NOT! This is illegal under the current california law. Even if it wasn't training and orientation is part of the job costs and employers just have to suck it up! Even Walmart pays their employees while training.

If you are there it is because you have to be, training/job. I would look elsewhere even it means moving. Look further out and do not settle for this. I certainly do not want any other hospitals getting any stupid ideas like "look at California getting training/working new nurses for free".

Even if it wasn't training and orientation is part of the job costs and employers just have to suck it up!

And in that case, don't newbies also have to suck it up when they get short-changed by employers who don't provide the kind of training and support that they may need? Or perhaps they just have to suck it up that they'll need to uproot to another locale and/or be unemployed for 6 more months in order to (hopefully) be accepted into a well-reputed new grad program? What options are there out there for newbies who really do need more than the standard amount of training and orientation traditionally provided to new grads? Is it just tough luck that their nursing program didn't ensure specific preparedness to handle an acute care floor nursing job with just 8-12 weeks of orientation?

How much training is part of 'just suck it up' labor costs? What level of training is needed? Is the employer able to provide consistent quality training at that level? How much supervision is required? Does supervision require paying an additional FTE for several months? How much room for judgement errors/time delays/incomplete tasks is there for the new employee who isn't yet "up to speed"? It's a very different picture between a retail entry-level new hire and an entry-level new hire in acute care bedside nursing.

Specializes in Cardiac, Derm, OB.

"How much training is part of 'just suck it up' labor costs? What level of training is needed? Is the employer able to provide consistent quality training at that level?"

Whatever amount is required for their position they are hired for. And as for "newbies having to suck it up", they should choose a hospital ready to invest in them and train them to be safe and caring nurses!

Specializes in One day CCU maybe!.

I just saw a new grad position in Columbia, SC that states the first 13 weeks are orientation at $10/hr. This isn't doable for me because of the need for child care if I'm working 36 hours a week. But for someone without kids I think this is a better alternative than either NOT paying you for three months or NOT having the job available because its too expensive to train new grads. :icon_roll

Anyhow, I guess I gotta keep lookin....sigh. :uhoh3:

I have seen new grad open houses with H1B visa holders in attendance. They flew in from overseas to attend. Must be rich in their own country. Unlike Americans the foreign nurses help their fellow countrymen here on the job (in their own language). So they are getting lots of on the job training.

I am saying there is no real verification of schools or experience. Profit making recruiters take a big cut for delivering them to underpaid positions. One of my cousins does this. She is a burnt-out former nurse.

I am also saying until this huge surplus is over there should not be any H1B visas. Especially from countries where there is hardship from lack of nurses or other medical professionals.

perhaps there should be a medical peace corps where new grads could gain experience.

I have to say this information is wrong. There are no hospitals that file H1B for inexperienced nurses. H1B was created specially for tech jobs such as engineering, comp science, IT etc but not for nurses. If you see a nurse with a H1b, its probably because they have years of experience in a specialized field. Also at this moment it is very hard for nurses to come over to work in the US because there are no visas, the influx of new grads every where and the recession. Even if there were H1b holders at the open house, it is because they were specially recruited, have years of experience, will have to stay with the hospital for 3years (i.e duration of their h1b versus new grads who leave as soon as their 1 year is up), and besides they cannot be paid lower that the prevailing wage.

you can read all this on the international nursing forum.

That is how the H1B was set up. Unfortunately, like any other law, they (recruiters, lawyers, employers) will do ANYTHING to get around it.

Here is what happened in IT (and BTW there was a VIDEO of this being taught!):

Employer puts an ad out looking for a "qualified" person to fill an opening. They put together an impossible combination of experience (ie: Looking for MF Cobol/DB2/CICS developer with Informatica, IMS, VMS, MVS, JCL, Transactional processing, C#, Oracle, FTP, EDI, ETL,,,,,,,,,). No one in the US has all the "skills" listed. They can NOW go get an H1B.

NOWHERE in the LAW does the H1B have to prove that they have the same skill set that was required of the US candidate! This was the loophole in the law that IT exploited!

Of course the H1B is to be paid what the US Citizen will be paid. The IT contracting firm then pays the foreigner LESS than the US counterpart and is told that since they (the IT firm) is holding the VISA, that if the employee tells ANYONE what they are being paid, they will immediately be deported! {I have worked with such persons. They were being paid far more than they would have been in their home country but less than the US peers. Out of fear of deportation, they did NOTHING to rock the boat!)

Employers would regularly tell the US Govt that there weren't enough qualified IT personnel. In the meantime, there were scores of unemployed programmers screaming for jobs and retraining into other fields after they gave up.

I do not doubt that this is what is behind the failure to hire new grads. All the hospital has to do is say they need a nurse with 1+ yrs experience and EVERY new grad is eliminated. If there is no LOCAL unemployed nurses that apply and have that specific 1+ yr in that field of nursing....they can then justify bringing in an H1B.

That is how the H1B was set up. Unfortunately, like any other law, they (recruiters, lawyers, employers) will do ANYTHING to get around it.

Here is what happened in IT (and BTW there was a VIDEO of this being taught!):

Employer puts an ad out looking for a "qualified" person to fill an opening. They put together an impossible combination of experience (ie: Looking for MF Cobol/DB2/CICS developer with Informatica, IMS, VMS, MVS, JCL, Transactional processing, C#, Oracle, FTP, EDI, ETL,,,,,,,,,). No one in the US has all the "skills" listed. They can NOW go get an H1B.

NOWHERE in the LAW does the H1B have to prove that they have the same skill set that was required of the US candidate! This was the loophole in the law that IT exploited!

Of course the H1B is to be paid what the US Citizen will be paid. The IT contracting firm then pays the foreigner LESS than the US counterpart and is told that since they (the IT firm) is holding the VISA, that if the employee tells ANYONE what they are being paid, they will immediately be deported! {I have worked with such persons. They were being paid far more than they would have been in their home country but less than the US peers. Out of fear of deportation, they did NOTHING to rock the boat!)

Employers would regularly tell the US Govt that there weren't enough qualified IT personnel. In the meantime, there were scores of unemployed programmers screaming for jobs and retraining into other fields after they gave up.

I do not doubt that this is what is behind the failure to hire new grads. All the hospital has to do is say they need a nurse with 1+ yrs experience and EVERY new grad is eliminated. If there is no LOCAL unemployed nurses that apply and have that specific 1+ yr is that field of nursing....they can then justify bringing in an H1B.

Voila. One of the ways employers use immigration laws to their advantage to the detriment of the American worker.

From today's New York Times:

"With job openings scarce for young people, the number of unpaid internships has climbed in recent years, leading federal and state regulators to worry that more employers are illegally using such internships for free labor.

"Convinced that many unpaid internships violate minimum wage laws, officials in Oregon, California and other states have begun investigations and fined employers. Last year, M. Patricia Smith, then New York's labor commissioner, ordered investigations into several firms' internships. Now, as the federal Labor Department's top law enforcement official, she and the wage and hour division are stepping up enforcement nationwide."

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