Petition to help new grads get experience - page 7
In light of the struggles that new grads are having securing a job, this petition may be of interest to many of you. allnurses.com has nothing to do with this petition. We are not endorsing it... Read More
0Jan 13, '13 by joanna73 GuideWhile nurses should unite and come to a consensus on various issues, I still don't agree that signing a petition for new grads is appropriate. We were all new grads once, and some of us not so long ago. Yes, it is tough and unfair....but life is unfair for many others at the moment. There seems to be a certain sense of entitlement and arrogance among some new grads, which is obvious from some of the posts throughout this site. There are jobs. However, the market IS competitive, and relocation is sometimes the only answer if you expect to work immediately. It is also not the fault of the school. No one is actively forcing money out of your hands. When you make decisions, you live with the consequences. Keep applying.
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1Jan 13, '13 by LadyFree28, BSN, RNQuote from AltraNot comparing apples to oranges...was giving one example. I can get into the DRG, but that is a total different tree as well...in chart reviewing, CMS uses a totally different set of codes for reimbursement, use of percentages of severity, etc..-talk about apples and oranges-I did chart reviews for CMS through a contractor and I reviewed charts in hospitals and Drs offices, and free standing centers in my area. I will go further in the hospital economics arena:
This is not correct. Medicare benefits include some provisions which directly reimburse certain agencies for nursing care including some home health, skilled nursing, and rehabilitation. You are correct that rates can vary by specialty.
However, in the inpatient/acute care world, hospitals billing for Medicare patients receive reimbursement by DRG and/or procedure code. There are no rates that specify payment for nursing care.
You are attempting to compare apples and oranges.
To explain, most hospitals are still given a percentage based on "unit hours"...units hours are based on the trend of how much total pt care a unit has seen over a period if time, and the budget is set based on past trends. The rate is still set based on CMS, insurance, etc, plus hospital budget If you ever work somewhere where there is a skill mix, LPNs are credited as 0.5 of an RN, PCTs are 0.1, RNs are 1.0. I still stand by my statement that nurses ARE billed, regardless of HOW, it is still credited.
Again, the bigger picture is how there is the myth of somehow we are BELOW a WORTH, seen as a number, etc, etc....When there is still a general consensus that we are STILL IN DEMAND and most people do RESPECT our profession, and we are COUNTED...again, in terms of economics, and salary levels, there are a few more variables, average cost of living, etc. I also agree that nurses salaries have remained stagnant as other costs have risen, but the trend states other wages have remained stagnant while upper management and CEOs have exploded. That is more of an issue that needs to be examined.
As for the responses I have seen about discussing the "money"; it may be a sore spot from some posters, but it needs to be discussed. There are a number (I believe thousands) in recent graduate cycle that are in it for the money, however, that shouldn't bar the subject because there are MILLIONS of nurses out there that truly enjoy their profession and still want a work life balance without working to death. This is not the era from 1860-1950, where people work to death and make money fir the "chosen few". In my opinion, like one if my nursing instructors said "you will not get rich being a nurse, but you will be able to make a living." We do have a right to make a living, no doubt about that...In previous posts I have already explained the government's process (ACA, Jobs bill, Federal Loan Forgiveness Act) that are hotly contested, as well as have been tabled that have provisions that help nurses and healthcare, as well as grant and loan repayment programs that help nurses as well, but to clarify, I believe the petitioner did want to start dialog. The government has programs in place that ARE NOT related to the fiscal budget...that is the fiscal, day to day debt. Is if related??? If there was less deficit, then would there be more money per year to give to a larger population...I'm not sure. This is also another subject to be taken into account...again, knowing how the system works goes a long way into finding solutions as well. Again, I suggest posters to do your homework on what areas you can get into (if any)...even volunteering for certain government sponsored programs can get money knocked off of your loans. Google government repayment programs...HHS and HRSA have programs for nurses, as well as states still have nursing forgiveness programs as well...this information can be started on another thread. But the information is out there!!! It's worth a try!!!
3Jan 13, '13 by LadyFree28, BSN, RNQuote from itrustitrust, here is the link to the complete list of HRSA programs:LadyFree28 can you comment on quote below:
"nursing repayment programs, or the Perkins Loan forgiveness (or not eligible to)."
Can you please elaborate on these two, I'm so inundated with debt I often have restless nights thinking about how I am going to pay it all back (tears often follow). I already ruled out kids since I want to purchase a house. I'm a career changer btw. I applied for the HRSA scholarship, they checked my credit but I ultimately didn't get an invite for the scholarship. I plan on applying for their nurse loan repayment program but I doubt I will get that as well. I have excellent credit, a good GPA but like someone referenced above the competition is fierce nowadays. I guess a 3.8 is too low for most of these scholarships, hopefully I can secure a residency, sigh.
A full list of repayments, approved government programs that can assist with paying down your loan. This list includes other occupations as well, however, the volunteer programs are open to all:
As for Perkins loan forgiveness, most states list it as well...check your state for specifics...I'm in PA, and I know a co-worker who used the Perkins Forgiveness.
Again, the loan Repayment is competitive, but so is nursing school! It is worth a try...they have a tier based system, so it is not just hospitals but clinics and non-profits are counted. So think outside the box, and try!!
Also, I've had restless nights about repaying the loan. They have ways to recalculate based on current income. Take advantage of these options. If you can get a deferment, please do if that is you last resort...work for city year and teach a health course while you work with kids...Volunteer for the homeless, use your clinical bag and do BP screenings...Go into the Peace Corp and use that as a means to help improve access of care...again, think out of the box.
As for getting a home and your own personal future...I went into Nursing School with a 800 dollar mortgage...I knew what I was doing...and I came out with a loan repayment of 550/month, as well as a past loan for LPN school and a previous degree which included my prerequisites (eligible for forgiveness) which is an additional 180 dollars, so I essentially have an additional "mortgage payment" I still have my house, and its not in foreclosure, I defer my previous loan and paid a portion on the principal, and Sallie Mae has a repayment calculation I am using, if I am not approved of my forbearance. I set this up before I had the opportunity to accept a new grad position. I knew what I was getting into, despite all my economic hardships, personal setbacks and difficulties. My parents couldn't afford college, I did get scholarships early, but my test anxiety, as well as I have a cyclothymia trait which affected my schoolwork. I was on a 12 year plan for getting my BSN. Yes working as an LPN did help, but also hindered my chances in getting a job...they still wanted RN experience...I knew that too. I've had a lot of personal setbacks, but this economy strain, to me is EASY compared to what I've been through. If you have survived nursing school, have the confidence to survive this economic crisis. There are ways and opportunities. I believe education is an investment, even if it means investing your time finding creative ways to pay it back. It is upsetting, however, I am confident that you will be able to achieve your goals.
3Jan 13, '13 by KelRN215, BSN, RNQuote from JZ_RNI see that you are from Massachusetts. I am too and this statement is untrue. I was a hospital nurse from the time I was a new grad (2007) until last April. Beginning in the summer of 2011, my hospital began exclusively hiring new grads because they were cheaper. From July of 2011 to when I left in April of 2012, my floor alone hired six new grads. I know they have hired even more since then. (They have also lost over 25% of their experienced staff in that time.) This is the most hiring they have done since the economy tanked... in 2009, we hired ONE nurse and in 2010, two. You do, however, need a BSN to be considered for any new grad positions at most hospitals here. That's a fact that's well known and well advertised though and I agree with others that students/new grads need to take some responsibility for their decisions. If someone chooses to go into nursing in this economy without researching the job opportunities they will have with their chosen degree, I disagree that it's the government's responsibility to find them a job. If you don't have access to the internet at home to do this research, a library card is free and you can use the library's internet as long as you have a card. The hospital in the town I grew up in (40 minutes outside of Boston), has several RN listings on their website that do not require experience nor a BSN.No hospital here hires new grad RNs, they all require 1 year acute care experience. Well how exactly do you get that? Magic?
0Quote from That Guy"Those who burn books will eventually burn people" - Heinrich HeineAnd just another reason people dont take nursing seriously.
Here is a hand holding service for after you graduate. I would rather burn this petition and the entitlement crap behind it. Getting through school/passing NCLEX doesnt mean you automatically get a job.Last edit by Nightingallow on Jan 13, '13 : Reason: spelling
2Jan 13, '13 by ThePrincessBride, BSN, RNQuote from funfunfun550Great post. I have found that those who worked as nurse's aides while in school AND attended an accredited BSN program had very little trouble finding jobs, and I live in a super competitive area. Hence why I am working two different jobs at two different facilities.Where is this petition>?
I have a suggestion to help those that are struggling to find jobs AFTER getting out of school....but hindsight is 20/20
Work....yes work..while you are in school...and shine so they WANT to hire you at THAT institution...why...
1. EXPERIENCE>...while it may not be RN experience it sure will lessen that institutions burden of hiring you and the learning curve is less because you already know the hospital(or institution)
2. Get a 4 year degree....yes it IS true...They put new grads with 4 year degrees to the head of the line over all others...
WHat my opinion of all this is matters not...and yours doesn't either...these are the cold hard facts...at least in the job market I am in.
3. Expecting a great job right out of school....lucky if that happens but yes we do work off shifts.weekends and holidays....undesirable staff positions(for those of you that think med surg is a crap hole some of us are honored to be working there and you dont have to have a career aspiration beyond being a "regular bedside nurse". I am praying some of you new grads will LOVE bedside nursing as I may need you sooner than I plan!!!!!
Good luck..practice also interviewing and being assertive....Confidence etc. Dress the part for interviews. I can recall once two friends came in for an interview together and well they looked like they were coming to work together to hang out as friends. Its a place to work...making friends is a bonus...bringing them with you...not required.
0Advice on finding jobs out of state NY for non-driver (I have a disability if you have to know so please spare the lip on not being able to drive)...and broke.
Should I apply for licenses (besides the one I have in NY) in several states? Which one is the best "gamble". I'm already broke, might as well go big, hitchhike and what ever since it's so easy to get a job outside...
Also I'm starting to get the BSN at instate cost (2nd bachelors btw) and had no financial aid for Associates...All this critism, but most of you are not in my shoes right now. If you were in my situtation, as many grads are, in this economy, myself with no family, what would you do? Who would you turn to? As crazy as it sounds, I asked the President, why, because I don't know who else to turn to. Again, which other state license would you recommend I put on my credit card?
1Jan 13, '13 by canigraduate, RNWhat I would do is use the internet to search for jobs in neighboring states. If you get a job in a neighboring state, move to an area where you can get transportation to the job. There is a vast network of services for people who don't drive in many urban/metropolitan areas. Contact the local social services department for help. Once you have the job offer, then transfer your license according to that state's laws. If you are unable to afford moving now, take a short term job in another field to build up your finances.
My mother went through a period where she couldn't drive for medical reasons and was able to get low cost and free transportation through local social services, and she was in a suburban/rural area. My family is very spread out geographically and wasn't able to help her very much, but she was able to get it taken care of on her own.
When I started out as a nurse last year, I was able to use my contacts from my clinicals and preceptorship to get a job. Reach out and network with the people you know. Hopefully you will be able to get some referrals and maybe even some interviews.
0Jan 13, '13 by JZ_RNQuote from KelRN215I see that you are from Massachusetts. I am too and this statement is untrue. I was a hospital nurse from the time I was a new grad (2007) until last April. Beginning in the summer of 2011, my hospital began exclusively hiring new grads because they were cheaper. From July of 2011 to when I left in April of 2012, my floor alone hired six new grads. I know they have hired even more since then. (They have also lost over 25% of their experienced staff in that time.) This is the most hiring they have done since the economy tanked... in 2009, we hired ONE nurse and in 2010, two. You do, however, need a BSN to be considered for any new grad positions at most hospitals here. That's a fact that's well known and well advertised though and I agree with others that students/new grads need to take some responsibility for their decisions. If someone chooses to go into nursing in this economy without researching the job opportunities they will have with their chosen degree, I disagree that it's the government's responsibility to find them a job. If you don't have access to the internet at home to do this research, a library card is free and you can use the library's internet as long as you have a card. The hospital in the town I grew up in (40 minutes outside of Boston), has several RN listings on their website that do not require experience nor a BSN.
Where I lived in college, the nearest library was 30 minutes away, and I could not afford the gas to go there and didn't have the time anyways. Nor did I have the time to sit in the college library, I had to work full-time so I could eat and buy books. I'm just saying, it's not all that easy. And lord knows that if I was using the library to go online it was to do an assignment, not to surf for the negatives of a profession that I chose.Last edit by JZ_RN on Jan 13, '13 : Reason: typo
1My neighboring states wants you to have the license first. Which should I get, Conneticut or NJ? NJ as a side note still has a curfew from the hurricane. I've joined agencies that are helping me look for work. They helped me prepare for interviews and applauded my efforts in reaching out to the federal government for help.
What I don't understand is why people believe that asking our government for help in training is a hand out? (I didn't say GIVE ME A JOB). My late father used to intiate these programs all the time at the department of labor. Maybe that's my next step. The reason I didn't ask the local government because my city is in shambles. I'm telling you first hand and as a volunteer in the ER, it is so sad here. Several of our hospitals closed, nurses relocated. If you go to look for a job in Long Island you find nurses resumes posted instead.
Please cut out the hand out bs. I'm asking to have help getting an externship, or apprenticeship, just to get hands on experience...
I know I'm a damn good nurse, new grad or not and I feel the medical field is at a big loss for not having me, entitlement, yes, very (and I feel sorry for any human being who doesn't know their worth). Willing to fight, you damn bet, and you know something, I stopped a nurse from hitting a patient, I didn't look away. I've held the hand of a patient that no one wanted to go near while the staff warned me that she'll hurt me. Poor lady cried afterwards. One patient would constantly cry, and few minutes with me we were singing Hello Dolly, and oh what a beautiful morning. He got OOB, we did a small dance to 42nd st. and he went to the bathroom (staff "he got up?" yes, "he went to the bathroom? In the toliet?" yes, he can do that)...maybe it's just a matter of time, hopefully get an interview this year.
3Jan 13, '13 by XmasShopperRNThis thread has become embarrassing. What originally began as an attempt to initiate dialogue about a very real issue that many new graduate nurses have and will continue to experience has morphed into a mud-slinging, name calling match that even kindergarteners would know better than to participate. I think most people who've offered comments to this thread bring some really valid points to the table. That being said and without naming names, I can't help but wonder if this dialogue would be a whole heck of a lot more productive if certain "experts" who have no problem with shooting down someone else's point of view could take the time and proofread their own responses before hitting send. IMO....
0Jan 13, '13 by funfunfun550Bingo..u hit the nail on the head....hospitals are looking for ways to save money...new grads have MORE opportunity where I work....the economy is just bad for everyone....keep on looking ... it will come,,,get back in BSN school if you dont have it...sell yourself...things WILL turn around. Don't be afraid to take a position outside something that would be ideal for you or your family...a year of experience will open doors for you...you made it through nursing school...you can make it through the first year of experience working somewhere that is not what you really want. Who knows you may find a passion in say long term or home health care. Very rewarding and growing fields..not every one can work in a hospital..Good Luck out there!