It's a Myth that it takes thousands of dollars to train a new Grad RN - page 4

by andywolfe

10,270 Visits | 66 Comments

Let me begin by giving some background about my situation. I graduated from a nursing school with an ADN in May 2012 from a school in California. Academically I was # 2 in a class of about 60 students. I looked for a new... Read More


  1. 3
    At my facility and unit, everyone has the same orientation period (the probationary period) and orientation classes, regardless of experience status. It can be argued then that experienced nurses cost more to orient than new grads at my facility.

    The claim of $60K or more for a new grad never sounded accurate to me either.
    netglow, andywolfe, and anotherone like this.
  2. 4
    Quote from NRSKarenRN
    The Costs and Benefits of Nurse Turnover: A Business Case for Nurse Retention..

    Table 1. Nurse Turnover Cost
    • Advertising and recruitment
    • Vacancy costs (e.g., paying for agency nurses, overtime, closed beds, hospital diversions, etc.)
    • Hiring
    • Orientation and training
    • Decreased productivity
    • Termination
    • Potential patient errors, compromised quality of care
    • Poor work environment and culture, dissatisfaction, distrust
    • Loss of organizational knowledge
    • Additional turnover




    Decrease New Graduate Nurse Orientation Costs ... - Nursing Center

    Direct Recruiting Costs

    Advertising
    Agency fees
    Referral fees
    Signing bonuses
    Travel expenses
    Testing/profiling costs

    Indirect Recruiting Costs

    Interviewing costs (time)
    Employee training (to interview)
    Travel expenses

    Productivity and Training
    Cost to fill in for lost employees
    Other employees time
    Training/orientation costs
    Seminars/conferences/e-learning
    Travel expenses
    Critical project involvement

    Termination Costs
    Exit interviewing costs (time)
    Severance pay
    Productivity losses

    Cost of Hiring New Nurses on ADVANCE for Nurses
    Labor Costs for a Graduate Nurse in 2011

    Pre-employment Costs:

    Interviews/paperwork: $450
    Drug Testing and Criminal Background Test: $300
    Physical Assessment, Lab: $1,000

    Employment

    1 Week - Mandatory Review: $5,000

    1 Month - Classroom and Skills,
    Four Nursing Educators Salary and Benefits: $13,500

    5 Months - Patient Care with Preceptor
    • GN Salary and Benefits (1 GN):$27,000
    • Preceptor (Experienced RN) Salary and Benefits: $32,000
    • 1 Nursing Educator @ 1 Hour/Day/New Graduate: $7,000
    • Indirect costs - 12% (percentage of overall operating cost of hospital): $10,345
    Competency: $96,595
    Again these values don't relate to me or the majority of the hospitals that hire med/surge nurses. We don't get 6 months and 1 week of training as you have indicated in the post above. My training lasted only 6 WEEKS. Only class time I had was for computer training and in house orientation. I already paid out of my own pocket for ACLS, BLS, and PALS!!!!

    Please try again.
    JulieL, netglow, nursel56, and 1 other like this.
  3. 1
    Quote from 8mpg
    I feel like there is a lot of ignorance by the original poster and he just wants to be right. To take yourself and compare it to the rest of the nursing population is not a good idea. Just because you are a healthy 28 year old, that doesnt mean every other nurse is. My fiance is 27 and her previous policy that went Cobra while switching jobs was $800/month. Her current employer pays $700/month and she pays nothing out of pocket. Cobra insurance numbers are not made up.

    Your example of 6 weeks of training is a very low figure. My hospital does 10-12 weeks for most new grads in easier departments such as med/surg. Our critical care staff is 16-20 weeks. They also have to farm out some of their education to other hospitals as they dont have the full critical care educators in house. Combined with turn over rates, healthcare, 401k, taxes, etc. the company can spend $15-20k easy.
    Again my original post does exclude higher acuity unit like ICU, NICU, etc etc. You can call community hospitals throughout USA and they will tell you that the training for med/surge unit is about 6 weeks and 2 extra weeks if you need it.

    Now in terms of Cobra, I have already compared the self insurance and insurance through the employer.

    Finally calling me ignorant won't really do anything for the fact that you were wrong about the topic below and your feelings got hurt in the process.

    http://allnurses.com/micu-sicu-nursi...ng-792124.html
    anotherone likes this.
  4. 3
    Quote from samadams8
    I don't buy that orientation is outlandishly expensive necessarily. Compared to many years ago, many things are loaded in systems so that new hires can go through the material via Intranet. This saves the class time and paying wages per hour for sitting in a classroom. Yes, somethings still require a classroom, but a lot of it has been cutdown. Insurance benefits are an issue, and it a HUGE part of the hiring freezes and moving from FTE to more PTEs in many hospital over the last several years. Still, if you hire someone, in most cases, you have to provide health benefits packages. This is part of the employee's compensation. But what I've seen places do is constantly rotate people through orientation and eliminate them right at the 3 month mark, when the benefits kick in. Why do that? Well, if you are Magnet and/or looking to become Magnet, you are looking like you care about safe staffing ratios and so forth, but you are making no commitment so to speak. Also, you can still give your preceptors patients while also giving the orientees patients, and after three months, get a new hire and continue with the cycle-supply. I have seen hospitals do this where they staff so many FTEs, PTEs, per diem, some % of travellers, and then they do the ole rotate new-hire RNs through--and it equals about the same time the travellers are contracted. When you have seen the pattern over and over again, it's hard to miss, and you know you aren't making it up.There's a lot of stuff that goes on that no one really talks about. About the cost of orienting, it may vary; but suffice it to say most places have really peeled those costs back. Sadly, nurses are too often treated as disposable units. I mean, as they say, it is what it is. If you work in or with a place that genuinely values you and sees each individual nurse as important to the whole--where you get the love, so to speak, consider yourself REALLY fortunate. I don't think you will see a lot of places trying to at least "appear" that way again until there is a very desperate need for nurses or unless they are trying to receive some kind of PR, advertisement, or recognition. Of course, my loyalty would go to the places that maintained the love in spite of the economy and current dynamics. Finding such places now is like finding a real diamond or bar or platinum on the beach. The one's that are genuine will be functioning this way no matter what, b/c the commitment is truly built into and throughout their values and ethics. It's not just something they say or put on paper. This is determined, more times that not, by the kind of ethos in leadership and administration. If the bigger leadership will not support a CNO in making such a commitment to values and ethics, that CNO will not be at the institution for very long. Well, CNO's get a nice salary, and so too often they go with the admin b/c of the money and title. It's about real integrity though, and integrity can cost you money, power, support in networking, etc. This is why I'm not so quick to judge anyone that has been "let go" or fired. Not fitting into the culture can, often enough, mean you don't play their games--leadership's games are at odds with your integrity--and this kind of thing can be an issue from the lowly staff nurse, all the way to the CNO.OP, sorry you had to move; but given the overall state of California, as pretty a state as it is, right now you may be much better off.Oh, also, you are right. As a newer nurse, you are cheaper than a veteran nurse--and this is also part of the reason veteran nurses aren't getting jobs if they left the field for a period of time. If they put an "internship" type program in place, they can still save a lot of money. They run it once or twice a year. In the internship, you may not be entitled to various raises, however small. The new grads that aren't getting jobs need to understand that if they aren't getting positions over experienced nurses that cost more, the spaces for FTEs are mega-tightened at the particular institution--b/c they are being told to limit hiring, especially of FTEs. And all these companies and hospitals are waiting to see how hard the changes in healthcare coverage are going to hit them. As the economy continues in the current state, businesses will continue to limit hiring and other expenditures. But I fully expect that as more positions open up, a good percentage of them will be filled by new grads, specifically b/c they are cheaper.
    Great post. post more often!
    JulieL, netglow, and andywolfe like this.
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    Quote from andywolfe
    I will say it again the last line of the 1st paragraph in my original post does state that my figures are excluding specialty nursing unit like ICU, NICU etc etc.
    1. For a new nurse, you seem to know an awful lot and are displaying an attitude that is inversely proportional to your purported knowledge base.

    2. The med surg preceptorship at the hospital that trained me was the same length as my ICU preceptorship. Med surg is its own animal and deserves a proper preceptorship, just like any other "specialty" setting.

    3. The second hospital I worked at as an ER RN provided a preceptorship and training program that was year-long and offered to anyone who met the requirements, regardless of specialty, again INCLUDING med-surg.

    The fact of the matter is that, very frequently, it does cost many, and frequently dozens, of thousands of dollars to train a new nurse.
    Mommy&RN, GrnTea, redhead_NURSE98!, and 11 others like this.
  6. 1
    Quote from apocatastasis
    1. For a new nurse, you seem to know an awful lot and are displaying an attitude that is inversely proportional to your purported knowledge base.

    2. The med surg preceptorship at the hospital that trained me was the same length as my ICU preceptorship. Med surg is its own animal and deserves a proper preceptorship, just like any other "specialty" setting.

    3. The second hospital I worked at as an ER RN provided a preceptorship and training program that was year-long and offered to anyone who met the requirements, regardless of specialty, again INCLUDING med-surg.

    The fact of the matter is that, very frequently, it does cost many, and frequently dozens, of thousands of dollars to train a new nurse.
    I am sorry but i am only writing the facts. If you like I can copy and paste the links to job description and names and numbers of the hospitals that are providing 6-8 weeks of med surge training and a max of 3 months of internship for ICU position (even though again I had excluded ICU position from my original comment)
    netglow likes this.
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    Quote from andywolfe
    Again my original post does exclude higher acuity unit like ICU, NICU, etc etc. You can call community hospitals throughout USA and they will tell you that the training for med/surge unit is about 6 weeks and 2 extra weeks if you need it.

    Now in terms of Cobra, I have already compared the self insurance and insurance through the employer.

    Finally calling me ignorant won't really do anything for the fact that you were wrong about the topic below and your feelings got hurt in the process.

    http://allnurses.com/micu-sicu-nursi...ng-792124.html
    lol... Ignorant seems correct. Again, your single instance at your hospital with your single age and health status is simply bogus. Please look into many hospitals such as Parkland which has an amazing education system in which some departments get 6 months of straight classroom education then orientation to the unit.

    You are simply arguing to be correct. You do not want to take any information given to you by people who have been a nurse longer than you (18 months?) with a little more experience in these areas. Again with your first job, you need to realize every situation is not yours. Until you let your guard down and listen to some others insight, you will simply bang your head against the wall arguing a mute point.
  8. 0
    Quote from 8mpg
    lol... Ignorant seems correct. Again, your single instance at your hospital with your single age and health status is simply bogus. Please look into many hospitals such as Parkland which has an amazing education system in which some departments get 6 months of straight classroom education then orientation to the unit.

    You are simply arguing to be correct. You do not want to take any information given to you by people who have been a nurse longer than you (18 months?) with a little more experience in these areas. Again with your first job, you need to realize every situation is not yours. Until you let your guard down and listen to some others insight, you will simply bang your head against the wall arguing a mute point.
    I would encourage you to look at the training for community hospitals. My original post did exclude hospitals that have Versant training programs and other programs that are similar to it.

    Here is an example of one of them

    "Looking for a company that will train you upon graduation from college? If so, IASIS Healthcare could be the one for you! We hire new graduates into many different areas of our hospitals; if you are a recent graduate from a nursing, physical/occupational therapy, laboratory sciences, respiratory tech, surgical tech, anesthesia tech or pharmacy program, give us a call today.

    IASIS places great emphasis on training and transitioning new graduates from the academic to the clinical/hospital setting. For example, our orientation program for newly graduated registered nurses is structured to last between four to 12 weeks. The length of the training varies from facility to facility and may take place in the classroom and/or clinical setting. Each hospital structures training based on unit needs, structure and the individual progression of the employees in the program. Rest assured if you were hired into one of our programs as a new graduate, you would receive the training you need to start your career.

    In addition to training, IASIS Healthcare offers competitive salaries and benefits, opportunities for career advancement, education programs and a variety of locations spread throughout the country. We have a total of 19 hospitals (18 acute care facilities and one behavioral health facility) located in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Louisiana, Nevada, Texas and Utah.

    To learn more about our new graduate opportunities, contact the Human Resource department at the hospital you are interested in, or go to that hospital website and apply for a position today. Congratulations on graduating and welcome to the exciting and rewarding field of healthcare!"
  9. 0
    Quote from 8mpg
    lol... Ignorant seems correct. Again, your single instance at your hospital with your single age and health status is simply bogus. Please look into many hospitals such as Parkland which has an amazing education system in which some departments get 6 months of straight classroom education then orientation to the unit.

    You are simply arguing to be correct. You do not want to take any information given to you by people who have been a nurse longer than you (18 months?) with a little more experience in these areas. Again with your first job, you need to realize every situation is not yours. Until you let your guard down and listen to some others insight, you will simply bang your head against the wall arguing a mute point.
    Department: 4 West Medical Surgical Renal
    Schedule: Full time
    Shift: Nights
    Hours: 7p-7a
    Job Details:
    • 4 West is a 39 bed Medical Surgical unit practicing individualized care of the adult patient. 4 West nurses are experienced in the care of a wide variety of chronic and acute medical conditions and receive special training for the care of renal patients. Nurses collaborate with interdisciplinary teams and a variety of specialists including: palliative care, cardiology, neurology, urology, oncology, and orthopedics. 4 West is team- oriented and has been successful in providing our patients with superior quality and outstanding customer service. Our unit is an ideal place for nurses looking to optimize their clinical expertise, time management, and critical thinking skills.ORIENTATION •UMC General Hospital Orientation •UMC General Nursing Orientation •Electronic Documentation training.
      Individualized Unit Specific Orientation •Unit specific orientation is in addition to UMC’s General Hospital Orientation and General Nursing Orientation •Orientation consists of observation, classroom, and clinical hours over a 6-8 week period. •Medical Surgical classroom orientation takes place over 2 days. •During clinical orientation you will be paired with an experienced nurse preceptor. The preceptor is chosen to best fit your personality and learning style. •Unique training includes Peritoneal Dialysis and care of the Renal Transplant patient. •Clinical orientation may be conducted on days or nights, depending on the shift the nurse is hired for. •Professional growth and development opportunities are available and encouraged including: committee participation, educational, and leadership advancement. Committees are available at unit level as well as hospital wide. •Other opportunities include: mentoring and a mix of core and flexible scheduling to optimize staffing and balance for our employees.
      Qualifications •Graduation from an accredited School of Nursing •Valid Texas Graduate Nurse Permit required. •Current CPR certification from American Heart Association. •Customer service abilities including effective listening skills. •Critical thinking skills, decisive judgment and the ability to work in a fast paced environment. •Ability to perform work that requires walking, sitting and standing most of the time while on duty. Occasional lifting or patients with assistance is required.
      Benefits •Full-time benefit package inclusive of health and dental coverage •Competitive compensation based on education and experience •Relocation assistance package if relocating > 75 miles / To reside in Lubbock, Texas •Educational Reimbursement for BSN / MSN •Eligible for overtime pay after 40 hours per week •Eligible for yearly annual increase •Eligible for Career Ladder after 12 months •Uniform Payroll deduction •Certification Exam reimbursement •Long Term Disability/Group Life Insurance/Group Dependent Life Insurance •Vision Insurance •Tax Sheltered Annuity Program •Supplemental Insurance Programs •Healthcare and Dependent care spending accounts •PTO and Extended Illness
      UMC Health System is the leader in comprehensive healthcare delivery in West Texas and Eastern New Mexico. More than 300,000 patients a year have come to expect
  10. 1
    Quote from 8mpg
    lol... Ignorant seems correct. Again, your single instance at your hospital with your single age and health status is simply bogus. Please look into many hospitals such as Parkland which has an amazing education system in which some departments get 6 months of straight classroom education then orientation to the unit.

    You are simply arguing to be correct. You do not want to take any information given to you by people who have been a nurse longer than you (18 months?) with a little more experience in these areas. Again with your first job, you need to realize every situation is not yours. Until you let your guard down and listen to some others insight, you will simply bang your head against the wall arguing a mute point.
    In this country, for every 1 hospital like parkland, there are at least 10 other hospitals that are training med surge nurses in a time period of 6-8 weeks. THIS IS A FACT!!!!
    happyinillinois likes this.


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