GA BON no longer accepting Excelsior education; Speak up Cont. Updates!!

helicoptergal, BSN, RN · Apr 2, 2009

Hi Everyone I think that you all are doing awesome and are so brave with all of this recent activity. :bow: :bow: My ??'s are and forgive me I am not in GA but in CA where I thought I was going to have to go through all of this rigamarole :crying2: they just dont except EC anymore except if you were enrolled prior to 12/03 and than you are grandfathered in regardless of background i.e Paramedic LVN or RT. Where are these internships supposed to take place, and who is going to write the curriculum to go by to determine if the said 700 hrs is meeting the requirements of the GaBON? I thought of doing an externship during school and was unable to because EC did not have a work study program or a contact person available 24hrs a day if a problem arises, and there was also issues of malpractice insurance. Now would the fact that that there are CPNE sites in GA help to facilitate any of these problems, and I am wondering who is going to have to foot the bill for all of this. Because god knows none of this stuff is cheap. I am sure my ?? have been covered in the past but I am curious, and would love to help in anyway possible?? Good Luck! :redpinkhe Frustrated for you in California:redbeathe

sunshine06 · Apr 2, 2009

Hi Everyone I think that you all are doing awesome and are so brave with all of this recent activity. :bow: My ??'s are and forgive me I am not in GA but in CA where I thought I was going to have to go through all of this rigamarole they just dont except EC anymore except if you were enrolled prior to 12/03 and than you are grandfathered in regardless of background i.e Paramedic LVN or RT. Where are these internships supposed to take place, and who is going to write the curriculum to go by to determine if the said 700 hrs is meeting the requirements of the GaBON? I thought of doing an externship during school and was unable to because EC did not have a work study program or a contact person available 24hrs a day if a problem arises, and there was also issues of Malpractice Insurance. Now would the fact that that there are CPNE sites in GA help to facilitate any of these problems, and I am wondering who is going to have to foot the bill for all of this. Because god knows none of this stuff is cheap. I am sure my ?? have been covered in the past but I am curious, and would love to help in anyway possible?? Good Luck! :redpinkhe Frustrated for you in California:redbeathe

My thought is and one way is to have the Ga bon issue a temp RN license I think the bill mentions something about that. They may issue a temp license if they approve it. What decides if they will approve it or not we will have to see. Now once you get the temp RN license you can secure a job as an RN and an Externship or Preceptorship. I'm not sure how CA works but their are many hospitals in GA that have Externships and Preceptorship the only catch is you have to have your Ga license because your basically working. That would solve the malpractice and other problems because if its a preceptorship your almost or are an employee. One hospital I know of has you sign a contract stating you'll complete their preceptiorship but in return for them showing you the ropes you have to work their for a year. Now in bill it states that the preceptorship will need to be approved first by the GA bon and then a temp license maybe secured. So, we will have to see how that goes.

Another thing you can still get endorsed from another state you will just need to work out of state for a year. Also, someone said that federal places don't require a GA license just any RN license. Their rules may not be the same. I'm not sure on this that is just what someone said. If that's true then you could work at a VA or any or federal place to get experience and then apply for endorsement later.

rnlately · Apr 2, 2009

This is true Sunshine. It's posted on the BON website under their rules. I think this situation is still workable; for example, in my town there are many, many, many, openings for RNs at the local hospital and I'm sure they as well as some other hospitals in Georgia would jump at the chance to allow EC grads to obtain "experience" in exchange for a yrs. service as an employee. Just a thought though.

baldee · Apr 3, 2009

North Carolina has no issues with EC grads at this time.

NC also invites cigarette industries in their hurricane ravaged state. Charlotte is a very nice place though, right on SC border which leaves some living expense/taxation flexibility. And it on the gutter lane of hurricane alley.

But the EC trend is a reality. To deny and give false hope is somewhat misleading. EC is still desperately suckering in new candidates in an irreversible trend downhill. EC has done nothing to bridge the gap over to State certification in a cooperative agreement with ANY state schools administrations. The time to do it was when they had 'innovator power of 1st to market'. They have done nothing, and now their power is all but gone. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GAIN APPROVAL FROM YOUR COMPETITION! duh!

The only hope that they have is find States that have not made the switch to Distant Learning format and OFFER ASSISTANCE in exchange for being grandfathered into State approval. Then after a few states, and interstate compacts, they may offer hope to current students what they originally sold as their' nationwide acceptance' bill-of-goods.

EVENTUALLY, this may regress to disbarment of PAST students as well. Stranger things have happened when peeing into a fan. EC management is riding the company into the ground with little regard for all the many it has sold false hope to. God bless all. :saint: :saint:

Pmdc · Apr 3, 2009

NC also invites cigarette industries in their hurricane ravaged state. Charlotte is a very nice place though, right on SC border which leaves some living expense/taxation flexibility. And it on the gutter lane of hurricane alley.
But the EC trend is a reality. To deny and give false hope is somewhat misleading. EC is still desperately suckering in new candidates in an irreversible trend downhill. EC has done nothing to bridge the gap over to State certification in a cooperative agreement with ANY state schools administrations. The time to do it was when they had 'innovator power of 1st to market'. They have done nothing, and now their power is all but gone. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GAIN APPROVAL FROM YOUR COMPETITION! duh!
The only hope that they have is find States that have not made the switch to Distant Learning format and OFFER ASSISTANCE in exchange for being grandfathered into State approval. Then after a few states, and interstate compacts, they may offer hope to current students what they originally sold as their' nationwide acceptance' bill-of-goods.
EVENTUALLY, this may regress to disbarment of PAST students as well. Stranger things have happened when peeing into a fan. EC management is riding the company into the ground with little regard for all the many it has sold false hope to. God bless all. :saint:

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. The trend has been for several states to stop licensing new EC graduates because of the lack of "clinical learning" in their program. Some states' BONs just can't seem to comprehend the clinical examination concept, although to date there has been no research to support their argument that their method is superior. The clinical examination in place of clinical learning concept has also been in conflict with wording in certain states' Nurse Practice Acts, specifically Georgia, which is why past students have been granted licensure by endorsement, rather than initial licensure. I personally feel that a combination of the two methods would be best for both traditional and non-traditional students.

Most states who had issues with EC over the years have later reached a compromise by requiring the new graduate without a pre-determined amount of clinical experience as an RN in another state to complete a clinical preceptorship. The states that didn't reach a compromise (CA & VA) probably could have if their informed citizens had been more politically active. I expect the trend of requiring some form of clinical preceptorship to continue. It's far from what you termed an "irreversible trend downhill", but it is change.

As far as EC's involvement, I know that members of their faculty have been very involved in GA's current legislative session, along with the GA Nurses Association. If you knew anything about them, you would never say that they're "suckering in new candidates". They are very open about states' acceptance of their program, and stopped allowing Georgians to apply to their program when last year's legislative problems started, and said that they will open it back up when a permanent solution has been reached.

Also, I don't mind debating this, but why the attitude?

Editorial Team / Moderator · Apr 4, 2009

EVENTUALLY, this may regress to disbarment of PAST students as well.

I'd really love to know what you're basing that statement on ... to make such a sweeping prediction of a possibility, you really oughta be able to back that up with something concrete.

And yes ... why the ire toward EC and its students/grads?

baldee · Apr 4, 2009

I'd really love to know what you're basing that statement on ... to make such a sweeping prediction of a possibility, you really oughta be able to back that up with something concrete.
And yes ... why the ire toward EC and its students/grads?

No ire at all. In fact its empathy in telling the facts an elementary student could clearly observe. Its not just Georgia. Look at the thousands of posters crying. Would they be crying so loudly and consistently if EC was on the up-and-up?

When any post states any facts contrary to EC and backed up with facts, it seems to immediately drowned out in hundreds of posts. My ire would be against systemically manipulating people by dancing around the truth by omitting of significant and well known facts; while hundreds of 'phantom' posters outright lie.

Power to the people. One day there will be enough intelligence on the web to disqualify spam, if the sponsors will allow it, ha-ha.

ivanh3 · Apr 4, 2009

no ire at all. in fact its empathy in telling the facts an elementary student could clearly observe. its not just

georgia. look at the thousands of posters crying. would they be crying so loudly and consistently if ec was on the up-and-up?.

let's start here. you might not have any ire. however, i do. i have ire when people suggest that ec is not on the up and up. that my hard work, my family's sacrifice, my degree, and my license are a sham (i.e. opposite of up and up). i question your "empathy" when you make condescending statements comparing posters to elementary students. it seems that if you don't understand where that comes from perhaps you should have paid more attention in elementary school.

when any post states any facts contrary to ec and backed up with facts, it seems to immediately drowned out in hundreds of posts.

your problem is recognizing what is fact and what is opinion. no one here is worried about debating those with different opinions as long as they cite their sources when they are claiming "fact" status. i see that you are a nursing student. i assume that you are attending a traditional brick and mortar school. i ask you this: does your program allow you to submit papers where you are offering your opinion as fact with no sources? i imagine the answer is no. if, as i suspect, you are so fond of your chosen school/route over that of ec then why do you not cite your facts here?

i have said this before, and i will say it again. you and those like you who come to this debate with no facts are lame. your suppositions are feeble. your presentation is weak. you are quick to be negative and not back yourselves up.

these are the facts: ec students pass the nclex at or above national pass rates. you and no one else have demonstrated any significant difference between an ec grad and a traditional grad. ec has taken steps to work with all of the states. they have taken steps to improve and evolve their program. this is all documented and documented well. even if agreements have not been reached that does not mean that ec has not been trying (same could be said for those bons).

what do you bring to the table? negative, disparaging comments claiming ec offers "false hope". i am sorry if i don't find your contributions constructive.

helicoptergal, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2009

EVENTUALLY, this may regress to disbarment of PAST students as well. Stranger things have happened when peeing into a fan. EC management is riding the company into the ground with little regard for all the many it has sold false hope to. God bless all. :saint: :saint:

I am not sure what is meant by the disbarment of passed students. I think each states BON is evaluating this situation individually and has different criteria of handling EC students based on their admission and graduation dates, as well as their prior work experience. In California they grandfathered in students based on a admission date prior to Dec 2003. I dont think that any of the difficulties between EC and the various State BON's is fair to the student. And the way Georgia is handling this is especially unfair to all of the EC students.

baldee · Apr 4, 2009

let's start here. you might not have any ire. however, i do. i have ire when people suggest that ec is not on the up and up. that my hard work, my family's sacrifice, my degree, and my license are a sham (i.e. opposite of up and up). i question your "empathy" when you make condescending statements comparing posters to elementary students. it seems that if you don't understand where that comes from perhaps you should have paid more attention in elementary school.
your problem is recognizing what is fact and what is opinion. no one here is worried about debating those with different opinions as long as they cite their sources when they are claiming "fact" status. i see that you are a nursing student. i assume that you are attending a traditional brick and mortar school. i ask you this: does your program allow you to submit papers where you are offering your opinion as fact with no sources? i imagine the answer is no. if, as i suspect, you are so fond of your chosen school/route over that of ec then why do you not cite your facts here?
i have said this before, and i will say it again. you and those like you who come to this debate with no facts are lame. your suppositions are feeble. your presentation is weak. you are quick to be negative and not back yourselves up.
these are the facts: ec students pass the nclex at or above national pass rates. you and no one else have demonstrated any significant difference between an ec grad and a traditional grad. ec has taken steps to work with all of the states. they have taken steps to improve and evolve their program. this is all documented and documented well. even if agreements have not been reached that does not mean that ec has not been trying (same could be said for those bons).
what do you bring to the table? negative, disparaging comments claiming ec offers "false hope". i am sorry if i don't find your contributions constructive.

1. i have not chosen a traditional brick school, but ec is not even in the transferable credit feasible subset of candidates.

2. i was not comparing anybody to elementary students. it was a comparative technique to show extremes.

3. the facts are courses are not transferable and degrees are increasing in trend not to be accepted as well. period.

4. i am not negative, and in a total "adult" ego state (like spock on star trek - and that was 'totally illogical', ha-ha). seriously now, i am trying to reach out to people not intent on joining faceless lemmings piling over a cliff's edge in wasted time, resources, money, and lost opportunity.

5. please show a link to ec graduates pass rate (not a link to more lip service please - a quantifiable source not associated with ec please).

6. i'm sorry you don't fine opposing views constructive, but that would add further validation to my position. sometimes, i think there is a library of multiple paragraph rebuttals that are cut and copied with peoples' posts that are searching for truth, right or wrong. god bless :saint: :saint:

Editorial Team / Moderator · Apr 4, 2009

5. Please show a link to EC graduates pass rate (not a link to more lip service please - a quantifiable source not associated with EC please).

Sure thing ...

http://www.op.nysed.gov/nurseprogs-nclexrn2003-07.htm

http://www.op.nysed.gov/nurseprogs-nclexrn2008-12.htm

Rates have slipped to 85% for 2008, but there you have it, from the NY BON website.

ivanh3 · Apr 4, 2009

1. I have not chosen a traditional brick school, but EC is not even in the transferable credit feasible subset of candidates.

That is not entirely right. It is not entirely wrong. Credits can transfer once you complete your degree. That is how many of us have moved on to BSN/MSN/doctorates. You are right in that you probably could not switch streams mid program. But to be clear: my credits/degree transferred as have others.

2. I was not comparing anybody to elementary students. It was a comparative technique to show extremes.

You were not comparing just comparing using a technique....what? Seems like comparing to me.

3. The facts are courses are not transferable and degrees are increasing in trend not to be accepted as well. Period.

Umm not period. Addressed in point 1. Quote your source about degree acceptance.

4. I am not negative, and in a total "adult" ego state (like Spock on Star Trek - and that was 'totally illogical', ha-ha). Seriously now, I am trying to reach out to people not intent on joining faceless lemmings piling over a cliff's edge in wasted time, resources, money, and lost opportunity.

So in your non negative, non comparing way, you are now comparing (again??) us to lemmings? And you can't see how some might find that insulting?

5. Please show a link to EC graduates pass rate (not a link to more lip service please - a quantifiable source not associated with EC please).

Done. Thanks Lunah.

6. I'm sorry you don't fine opposing views constructive, but that would add further validation to my position. Sometimes, I think there is a library of multiple paragraph rebuttals that are cut and copied with peoples' posts that are searching for truth, right or wrong. God Bless :saint:

Again, you post without facts. Where are your facts. Why don't you link something to back up your claims? They may very well be true, but how do we know if you don't cite your sources? I mean really. I guess I can't stop you from continuing to insult us, but my theory is you do so because you have nothing else to offer in the way of proof.