Medicaid. Is it being abused? - page 20

Medicaid was a great idea when first introduced to assure that even the very poor could get quality health care. I just wonder when I see someone drive up in a newer car come up to the triage desk... Read More

  1. by   DidiRN
    Never said anyone used it here in print here...I did say insinuate though. And I did state I don't necessarily mean here on Allnurses.

    I will try to make this more clear.I am concerned that a certain element of our society with certain opinions, do not allow free flow of debate by accusing others of things such as...for example...ignorance, racism, lack of compassion, cold hearted ness etc. In other words, they name call, although may not use exactly the words I have stated (those were examples). The name calling can be insidious, and frequently is. I also mean this on a general level, not just on this topic alone. I have probably failed to make myself clear though when I ventured out beyond this, however, and I can live up to that and attempt to explain it. To be on topic, this is what I mean... on this thread, I have seen some chiding of ER nurses and telling them that she/he should have more compassion for the patients, or they are guilty of being cold hearted. Because of the large number of ER nurses who share this opinion (abuse of the ER/Medicaid) that I personally know, and also see here on Allnurses, and that is just about closing in on 100% of them, to me personally there must be some element of truth to this, just by the sheer volume of agreement. When I see so many voice this in agreement, then a few others belittle them (again, it is my opinion they are being belittled here) with telling them how what they feel is wrong, then I have a tendency not to believe the latter opinion, but believe the former. They are the ones in trenches (and God bless 'em for that!!!) It is not productive to just make a blanket statement like this (you are cold hearted, or insert whatever you want here) and that's what I have a problem with. If it was one or two people making a statement in agreement with this abuse, that is not what I am talking about. There are too many ER nurses out there who truly believe this. Are they ALL wrong?? In my opinion, no. And when I hear a few on here state, whether upfront or insinuate, say that they have no compassion, they are not understanding, etc, that, to me, is name calling. Then I ventured into my real concern here, which stretches beyond this thread and topic; that debating an issue in this manner, is unproductive and may lead to the development of something that neither side ultimately wants. Ignoring or belittling a large number of people who share that opinion, whether it be this topic, illegal immigration, etc, is dangerous. That is my opinion. Of course you have the right to disagree with this, as anyone else does.

    Now with my best friend who has a liberal point of view, if her and I were to discuss this, it would have not ventured into this. She would not have said "Didi, you are just a burned-out, cold-hearted, battle ax of a nurse and you need to get out of nursing". (DISCLAIMER: Mercyteapot, nor anyone else, did not make this particular statement here online). She would have said, "Why do you feel this way?" then presented her POV without making this kind of statement. I deeply respect her opinions, and deeply respect that she can debate me without any kind of anger or (once again, in my opinion) the covert name calling that I see with all kinds of issues today, not just this one alone.

    Please don't get in to another "I didn't say that" because that is irrelevent to this debate, I didn't say you personally said this, which I think was pretty obvious or else I would have quoted you on it. But I do suspect you are in agreement with it, and that is why I targeted you personally. Believe it or not, I am interested in your point of view on what I said. But I do want it fairly. I always enjoy a good debate.






    Quote from mercyteapot
    It isn't my opinion that you're anything. I said "perhaps", meaning maybe you are and maybe you aren't. I was just trying to find some explanation for your claim that there are people who consider you racist or ignorant, when I have yet to see anyone use those words in print.
  2. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from DidiRN
    Never said anyone used it here in print here...I did say insinuate though. And I did state I don't necessarily mean here on Allnurses.

    I will try to make this more clear.I am concerned that a certain element of our society with certain opinions, do not allow free flow of debate by accusing others of things such as...for example...ignorance, racism, lack of compassion, cold hearted ness etc. In other words, they name call, although may not use exactly the words I have stated (those were examples). The name calling can be insidious, and frequently is. I also mean this on a general level, not just on this topic alone. I have probably failed to make myself clear though when I ventured out beyond this, however, and I can live up to that and attempt to explain it. To be on topic, this is what I mean... on this thread, I have seen some chiding of ER nurses and telling them that she/he should have more compassion for the patients, or they are guilty of being cold hearted. Because of the large number of ER nurses who share this opinion (abuse of the ER/Medicaid) that I personally know, and also see here on Allnurses, and that is just about closing in on 100% of them, to me personally there must be some element of truth to this, just by the sheer volume of agreement. When I see so many voice this in agreement, then a few others belittle them (again, it is my opinion they are being belittled here) with telling them how what they feel is wrong, then I have a tendency not to believe the latter opinion, but believe the former. They are the ones in trenches (and God bless 'em for that!!!) It is not productive to just make a blanket statement like this (you are cold hearted, or insert whatever you want here) and that's what I have a problem with. If it was one or two people making a statement in agreement with this abuse, that is not what I am talking about. There are too many ER nurses out there who truly believe this. Are they ALL wrong?? In my opinion, no. And when I hear a few on here state, whether upfront or insinuate, say that they have no compassion, they are not understanding, etc, that, to me, is name calling. Then I ventured into my real concern here, which stretches beyond this thread and topic; that debating an issue in this manner, is unproductive and may lead to the development of something that neither side ultimately wants. Ignoring or belittling a large number of people who share that opinion, whether it be this topic, illegal immigration, etc, is dangerous. That is my opinion. Of course you have the right to disagree with this, as anyone else does.

    Now with my best friend who has a liberal point of view, if her and I were to discuss this, it would have not ventured into this. She would not have said "Didi, you are just a burned-out, cold-hearted, battle ax of a nurse and you need to get out of nursing". (DISCLAIMER: Mercyteapot, nor anyone else, did not make this particular statement here online). She would have said, "Why do you feel this way?" then presented her POV without making this kind of statement. I deeply respect her opinions, and deeply respect that she can debate me without any kind of anger or (once again, in my opinion) the covert name calling that I see with all kinds of issues today, not just this one alone.

    Please don't get in to another "I didn't say that" because that is irrelevent to this debate, I didn't say you personally said this, which I think was pretty obvious or else I would have quoted you on it. But I do suspect you are in agreement with it, and that is why I targeted you personally. Believe it or not, I am interested in your point of view on what I said. But I do want it fairly. I always enjoy a good debate.
    Didi, after all those paragraphs of "I didn't say you said it" and "I'm talking about in general", you start wrapping it up, "I do suspect you are in agreement with it." That, to me, discredits all your little disclaimers. If I were you, I would respond to what's written in my posts, and leave your "suspicions" to yourself.
  3. by   DidiRN
    Still nickpicking and not addressing the issue I brought up again. Doesn't discredit me in the least, but certainly discredits you, since you can't seem debate the real issue here, huh? Not one single comment on it.

    Nice try. If this is all you can come up with, I'd like to hear from someone else who can debate what I said.

    Quote from mercyteapot
    Didi, after all those paragraphs of "I didn't say you said it" and "I'm talking about in general", you start wrapping it up, "I do suspect you are in agreement with it." That, to me, discredits all your little disclaimers. If I were you, I would respond to what's written in my posts, and leave your "suspicions" to yourself.
  4. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from mstigerlily
    Oh my goodness! Well the first thing that needs to stop is if you have a baby here, that baby is automatically citizen. You don't see people flying to France or England or Tahiti to have babies because most countries don't have this particular law.

    Did you read that first article I posted? It explained the second thing that needs to stop in California which is the definition of emergency service is way too broad. The article stated that in Texas if it is not emergent (with stricter well defined guidelines), people are told they can be seen but they will be cash pay - or they are turned away.

    I think those two things alone would solve most of the problem right there.

    Actually, any child born in a foreign country is a citizen of that country. My younger brother was born in the 5th Army Hospital of Frankfort and both of his parents were U.S. citizens. My younger brother was considered a German citizen until my mother had him placed on her passport. And he held dual citizenship for a number of years. So, your contention that ours is the only country that grants automatic citizenship, well it is incorrect.

    Take your complaint about the definition of emergency up with the California legislature. They are the ones responsible for changing it. And change might solve some of the problem but just think of the public health problems one would be creating. And one should be aware of the lessening of public health funding over the past twenty years.

    Grannynurse
  5. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from erShocker
    Is Medicaid being abused?

    YUP!

    no news there. In Kentucky, If you have medicaide you get a cab ride from the ER to home or a voucher. If you are retired and old and living with Medicare, you better call a family memeber or walk. A cab ride is not covered.

    Joke. Its become that. The people who have it will tell you, proudly at triage how they got it and are getting over. They know and will tell anyone who listens. Just nobody listens expect the triage nurse and we cannot say anything.

    Its the job.
    Gee, here in Florida and up in New York, if you are on Medicare and need transportation home, you do get a voucher for a cab ride home. Can't really understand that. Florida is one of the tight wat states and New York is one of the most liberal.

    Grannynurse
  6. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    Actually, any child born in a foreign country is a citizen of that country. My younger brother was born in the 5th Army Hospital of Frankfort and both of his parents were U.S. citizens. My younger brother was considered a German citizen until my mother had him placed on her passport. And he held dual citizenship for a number of years. So, your contention that ours is the only country that grants automatic citizenship, well it is incorrect.

    Take your complaint about the definition of emergency up with the California legislature. They are the ones responsible for changing it. And change might solve some of the problem but just think of the public health problems one would be creating. And one should be aware of the lessening of public health funding over the past twenty years.

    Grannynurse
    That's certainly true, regarding babies born in other countries being a citizen. It will never change here; isn't it a constitutional protection? I also don't really think you can accurately compare England and France with the United States, since they don't share a border with any developing nations. However, and I'm sure any of our British members could speak to this, doesn't Great Britian have an immigration problem of their own? (Not addressed to you, specifically, grannynurse, just including it in this post.)
    Last edit by mercyteapot on Jan 9, '06
  7. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from DidiRN
    Still nickpicking and not addressing the issue I brought up again. Doesn't discredit me in the least, but certainly discredits you, since you can't seem debate the real issue here, huh? Not one single comment on it.

    Nice try. If this is all you can come up with, I'd like to hear from someone else who can debate what I said.
    Your "main" point being which one? All things considered, it does seem as if it really would be a better idea for you not to debate me, but I still must insist that you not mirepresent what I've said or what I think. Whether you have deliberately misspoken or not, you are attributing words and thoughts to me that are not my own, and you have absolutely no right (or grounds) to do so.
    Last edit by mercyteapot on Jan 9, '06
  8. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    Gee, here in Florida and up in New York, if you are on Medicare and need transportation home, you do get a voucher for a cab ride home. Can't really understand that. Florida is one of the tight wat states and New York is one of the most liberal.

    Grannynurse
    In my County, we're given tokens to give clients. (I don't work in a hospital). It is really kind of a stupid system; with vouchers, you pay exactly what the fare is. With the tokens, if you've given $25 and the ride is only $23, it is difficult to recoup the change. Also, when we used the vouchers, the County had a contract with the cab company that addressed gratuities for the driver. Now, we hear clients telling us that the drivers become rude when they don't get a tip.
  9. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from mercyteapot
    That's certainly true, regarding babies born in other countries being a citizen. It will never change here; isn't it a constitutional protection? I also don't really think you can accurately compare England and France with the United States, since they don't share a border with any developing nations. However, and I'm sure any of our British members could speak to this, doesn't Great Britian have an immigration problem of their own? (Not addressed to you, specifically, grannynurse, just including it in this post.)
    One of the nice things about reading several newspapers a day. Yes, Britian has a problem with immigration. You see any citizen of a Commonwealth Country, of which there are numerous ones, has a right to immigrate to Britian. And so does Canada, which share the commonwealth title. And France has a similar problem plus the guest workers program. A program Bush is trying to push in this country as a relief measure to illegals.

    Grannynurse
  10. by   LeahJet
    Quote from DidiRN
    Because of the large number of ER nurses who share this opinion (abuse of the ER/Medicaid) that I personally know, and also see here on Allnurses, and that is just about closing in on 100% of them, to me personally there must be some element of truth to this, just by the sheer volume of agreement.
    hhmm DiDi, sounds like some basic common sense there.

    ~from, one of those ER nurses~
    Last edit by LeahJet on Jan 9, '06
  11. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from Leah Jet
    hhmm DiDi, sounds like some basic common sense there.

    ~from, one of those ER nurses~
    I am not disagreeing that there are abuses of Medicaid and Medicare and private and/or employer health insurance programs. I am questioning the rather outlandish claims, made by several posters. of abusers of Medicaid driving $30,000 cars, owing homes, wearing designer clothes. And even if some of their claims are true, such as the wearing of designer clothes, who and what is to say these were not purchased prior to their loss of income. I wore designer clothes when I was receiving Medicaid. Guess what? I had made the purchase of such clothes before I lost my income. To satisfy some, what am I suppose to do? Throw the clothes out and wear what? I think not and I think it is unreasonable to demand people dress down to suit some warp sense of propriety.

    Likewise I question people stating that those on food stamps buy better cuts of meat or spend them on items they themselves cannot afford. One needs to understand the food stamp program. It is not a free give away federal food program. You must purchase your food stamps. The purchase gives you a set increase in the amount of money you can spend on food. And what food you can purchase is also tightly regulated. And if one sees someone making purchases they suspect are not allowed, they have the obligation to speak to the store manager and/or the food stamp program. Like wise, WIC is also a federaL program that ensures that infants and toddlers receive juice, milk, cheese. And it is also a tightly regulated program. And if anyone sees a person violating that program, again they have the responsibility to report the store and the clerk Believe me, stores do not wish to lose their ability to accept WIC checks.

    As far as owing a home and receiving Medicaid. Most states have the following program in place. In order to be eligible for Medicaid and continue to own and live in your home, you must sign an agreement that turns the home over to the state upon the death of the eligible individual and his/her spouse. It is an old and established rule and is accepted by many eligible individuals. So, that explains that situation.

    I take issue with misrepresentations, be they intentional or non-intentional, by some on this thread. I have offered explanations, as have others, yet none of you apparently are able to offer any reasonable exceptions to the rule. Instead offer more misrepresentations of what they have supposedly seen. And I have yet to see any offer steps they have taken with their own state legislature to correct those laws they take issue with. And please do not offer the busy life excuse. I have been active in politics since high school. And I have been a single mother, working full time and attending school full time, and still made the time. And I instilled my activism in my daughter, who is sometimes at odds with me politically.

    If you want to continue to offer incorrect assessments of supposed abuses, feel free to do so. Please do not complain when I and others take issue with your statements of supposed abusers, it only lessens your argument.

    Grannynurse
  12. by   LeahJet
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    If you want to continue to offer incorrect assessments of supposed abuses, feel free to do so. Please do not complain when I and others take issue with your statements of supposed abusers, it only lessens your argument.Grannynurse
    When I am working in the ER/triage, I have no idea what the person drives up in, it could be a clunker or a Bentley. I have no idea what their home looks like. They could be carrying a Louis Vuitton, but these days, 95% are knock-offs. They could be covered in ice, but CZ is sold everywhere. My point is, I have not the time OR desire to make personal judgements. It is none of my business.

    I do, however, make nursing judgements when I triage. And I know there is an astounding amount of Medicaid that come to the ER for obvious clinic type issues. In my 10 years of ER nursing, when I tried to educate, was met with everything from nonchalance to hostility. I will interject that I am a very tactful and diplomatic person. Therefore, I believe the majority of the problem is not as much misinformation as it is a sense of entitlement. People can not be bothered with silly things such as making an appointment and maybe having to wait a couple of days for a semi/chronic condition.

    Do I think that Medicaid patients are the only ones that abuse the ER/health care system? No. But that is what the topic is about.

    In the long run, poor saps that work and pay for insurance are the ones that put off seeking care due to astronomical deductables.
  13. by   wildcats
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    Likewise I question people stating that those on food stamps buy better cuts of meat or spend them on items they themselves cannot afford. One needs to understand the food stamp program. It is not a free give away federal food program. You must purchase your food stamps. The purchase gives you a set increase in the amount of money you can spend on food. And what food you can purchase is also tightly regulated. And if one sees someone making purchases they suspect are not allowed, they have the obligation to speak to the store manager and/or the food stamp program. Like wise, WIC is also a federaL program that ensures that infants and toddlers receive juice, milk, cheese. And it is also a tightly regulated program. And if anyone sees a person violating that program, again they have the responsibility to report the store and the clerk Believe me, stores do not wish to lose their ability to accept WIC checks.

    Grannynurse
    Kind of OT, but I was wandering if you could tell me what foods aren't supposed to be bought with food stamps? I worked in a grocery store and the people with foodstamps have been able to purchase sodas, candy, and anything else they want as long as it can be eaten. The only thing I have seen that they cannot purchase is fresh made foods from grocery store salad bars or the deli. Thanks.

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