Hindrance to professional growth

[exit96]

I have this in the ER thread because I am in ER. Therefore with the acuity levels, "conveniences" are not, or shouldn't be a hindrance to patient care. I'll try to make this short, I a really quite depressed about this topic.

First, I am a male RN. I realize that many/ most will not admit to what I am implying here.

For one, always take the patients wishes into consideration, no problem, I am a professional, or at least id like to be treated like one. Why is it that female patients are always catered to? Pelvic exam, cath etc...??? Why am I immediately presumed "not qualified" to be involved with these procedures? I know what some of the "reasons" that will be stated.

I have passed background checks, got my RN license, am a decent and respected individual, but I am presumed to be a danger? to female patients?? I say "I and me" meaning males in general.

With the amount of males in nursing now, does anyone EVER assume that the guy would like to have a male nurse doing a cath? No. We "presume" and follow stereotypes. "Oh guys don't care..." etc. YET, we exclude males from certain care tasks when the female patient hasn't voiced an aversion at all. Again, "ask if the female would mind???" Really?? Does anyone ask the male "if he would mind a female being in there?" I'm sure some will say something like " well females have been nursing for a long time and the males just know that they have to deal with it..." Well, males are nurses now, where is the consistency?? Male trauma patients come in and no one hesitates in removing all clothing, just let it alll hang out and many times don't even get them covered up in a reasonable amount of time. Inversely, the female trauma comes in, and soon it's " oh it's a female, us girls will go in and do such and such" or they won't remove the clothing as quickly or as openly as they will on a guys, and sometimes I have seen them not remove pants because they "didn't want to ruin her clothes!" What?!?!

And by the way, no one rushes in and saves granny from a male giving her an enema. DOUBLE STANDARS ABOUND. Makes me sick and depressed. How will I advance in professional practice with all the "assumed" problems with males and female patients?

I will say, I don't care. The girls can do ALL the patients, male and female, caths enemas, pelvis, for all I care. But when the selectivity comes out it is just plain WRONG, and it IS discrimination.

One more point; it is wise to avoid being alone with a female patient for the "private" tasks...reason being, all that it would take it 1 female making an accusation and my entire career could be over. Inversely, is a male patient made a complaint against a female nurse it wouldn't even be taken seriously.

[NurseGirl525, ASN, RN]

I am going to explain something from a couple points of view. First, I am going to say it needs to be Ok, with the patient. When someone suffers a sexual assault it can take many years for her to feel comfortable and trust a male again. Most sexual assaults are not reported. Therefore many women suffer in silence and have horrible issues with being touched or looked at by a male. It took me over 10 years to feel comfortable with myself again. And I am just learning how to trust again. It was a very difficult time in my life and I don't think especially in the beginning I could have handled a male doctor or nurse without flashbacks.

Second, you have to think of yourself. Being alone in a room with a female patient is not a good idea for your protection. People all the time make false accusations. What if that happened to you? It's not about what's right or fair, it's the way it is and you need to be protected. Because even greater than losing your nursing license is going to jail.

[Mandychelle79, ASN, RN]

personally I do not care if a male or female provides care for myself or my children.

on a perfessional level, because of my specialty, I see the opposite. The male patients do not want a female staff member to hear some of their concerns regarding their medications and often our older male dementia patients will not want a female to assist them with ADL's.

[The_Optimist]

In your OP you asked the question "Why is it that female patients are always catered to?". I attempted to answer your question. Then you complained about some of your peers making the assumption that female patients would prefer to receive care from a female in certain situations, and in your post above you refer to "some of my peers, jumping in without even asking or notifying me, without the patient ever verbalizing an aversion." My answer is that not all women patients who do not wish to receive care from a male will feel comfortable expressing this, and it is considerate to presume that women, particularly when they are going to receive more intimate types of care from a male nurse/doctor, will prefer to receive that care from another female. I suspect that is why your female co-workers are rushing in to help. Your profile says you are a 49 year old man with one year of nursing experience. Nursing is about your patients, not about your ego. Why does it bother you so much that your female co-workers, who understand womens feelings and fears much better than you do, are assisting with your patients without speaking to you first?

Understanding that he has one year of nursing experience is all the more reason to simply explain the rationale behind your reasoning and not bring his ego into question.

He might be a mature male of so many years, but in this nursing profession he is a nurse in his first year of nursing. Accord him that respect and respond to the concerns voiced.

I do think you wrote it beautifully,:) coming from the point of view of the "silent" female who would rather not speak.

[Susie2310]

Understanding that he has one year of nursing experience is all the more reason to simply explain the rationale behind your reasoning and not bring his ego into question.

He might be a mature male of so many years, but in this nursing profession he is a nurse in his first year of nursing. Accord him that respect and respond to the concerns voiced.

I do think you wrote it beautifully,:) coming from the point of view of the "silent" female who would rather not speak.

No-where in my post did I question anyone's ego - my words were "Nursing is about your patients, not about your ego." As nurses our practice is about our patients' needs, not about ourselves. I have answered the OP sincerely, and have provided explanations to support my points to the best of my ability.

[exit96]

Sorry, haven't updated my details... Been a nurse 3 years, CNA 2 years prior, and human being for 49 years total...get over yourself...sorry, that sounds mean, but seriously...how easy to NOT analyze the principal self forth, and instead attempt to point out MY problems, that's a common knee jerk reaction...I am attempting to speak "in general," please exceuse me if I have failed. It seems to me that, the attempt at defending yourself (female discrimination) is telling enough. This Is why I hesitated a few times to even post on the subject, I suspected that the majority of responses would be related to " whoa is me, I'm a female, I have been wronged and could never do wrong etc...)... My point is proven.

[Anna Flaxis, BSN, RN]

As a member of the female gender who has been assaulted and made to fear for her life, I would prefer to be asked my preference than have it assumed that I want a female nurse. For me, it's about feeling safe, which I base upon the *individual human being*, not their gender. There are females that make me very uncomfortable, and males that I feel safe with, and vice versa. It's about how you treat me, and what my "radar" tells me about you, NOT your gender.

This being said, I think the OP's concern is completely valid. His female co-workers are jumping in on his patients without his ever having an opportunity to *ask* the patient her preference first.

Exit96, I think that whenever you anticipate one of your patients is going to need intimate care, you be proactive and ask them their preference first. This applies to both males and females. Be prepared to intercept your well meaning co-workers (because I really believe in giving folks the benefit of the doubt, and I am assuming they mean well) and do the procedure yourself if the patient is okay with you doing it.

You got this.

[Sassy5d]

I still wonder.. Can a man go into a female patients room and by himself, remove her clothing, inspect her bits and insert a foley without another staff member present?

[hlrc2004]

When it comes to trauma pt where I've work the male nurses don't leave if we have to undress or cath them unless the pt requests. And then if they can request for them to leave means it really doesn't need to be done. I get the male nurses to do my male pt in exchange I cath and do pelvic exams for them. Believe me I've done plenty of these you don't want to be down there.

My male counterparts do go in rooms and help with cleaning PTs and if the pt says something I just them know that they are a nurse or tech and they are trained they same way I am. This usually easies their concerns.

[Pudnluv, ASN, RN]

To the OP.......welcome to our world. Gender discrimination has been around for a long time, and as a female, I deeply offended by it. You should be able to go to your job, and do it without being constrained by your gender. For many years, women were told what they could and couldn't do based soley on our gender and not on our abilities. How many female doctors were dismissed by patients because they didn't think a girl would be smart enough to take care of them? How about female cops our female firefighters? I am sure they face the same kind of discrimination every day. Way back when I was a kid, I wanted to be a paramedic (Emergency was my favorite show), but at that time, women were not allowed to become paramedics and firefighters, so I became Dixie instead. A choice I am glad I made. It has taken women (and we are still fighting) years to find equality in the workplace. It doesn't happen in a day or even a decade. This is what you, as a male, are finding in a female dominated profession. Change come slowly.

Now to your original dilemma. In emergent situations, it should never matter if you are male or female. The care of the patient is at stake and saving a life is more important than saving dignity. We have had many situations that were not emergent, where a male nurse is chaperoned by a female nurse. This is for your protection, (we had an incident). Conversely, I have seen male patients who refuse to be touched by a female, mainly for religious reasons. As far as trauma goes, if I have to cut the clothes of anyone, I do. If a particular piece of clothing can be preserved, we certainly try. I have never afforded differential treatment to anyone in these situations.

It is unfortunate that you have to endure gender discrimination. No one should have to. Like I said, change comes slowly, and not without prejudice. Hang in there.

[exit96]

As a member of the female gender who has been assaulted and made to fear for her life, I would prefer to be asked my preference than have it assumed that I want a female nurse. For me, it's about feeling safe, which I base upon the *individual human being*, not their gender. There are females that make me very uncomfortable, and males that I feel safe with, and vice versa. It's about how you treat me, and what my "radar" tells me about you, NOT your gender.

This being said, I think the OP's concern is completely valid. His female co-workers are jumping in on his patients without his ever having an opportunity to *ask* the patient her preference first.

Exit96, I think that whenever you anticipate one of your patients is going to need intimate care, you be proactive and ask them their preference first. This applies to both males and females. Be prepared to intercept your well meaning co-workers (because I really believe in giving folks the benefit of the doubt, and I am assuming they mean well) and do the procedure yourself if the patient is okay with you doing it.

You got this.

Nicely articulated. I like your suggestion about me being proactive and asking, it's more patient sensitive than assuming. And we have all agreed that in ER this is not a priority, but a mere convenience in urgent cases.

I hope I haven't offended anyone here. I fear that I am not being taken seriously by some perhaps, and this is a real concern of mine, and the (unspoken) assumption that my patient has a problem with me without being asked, is hurtful. And no, I'm not an overly sensitive boy, I'm a grown man who gives respect and I expect it to be reciprocal. I really am not in favor of getting bogged down with having to juggle males vs female tasks, that could easily become a huge burden and also could compromise patient safety and throughput time. Let's just treat males and females the same, whether they be a patient or an RN.

[zmansc, ASN, RN]

Back when I was in my OB rotation in school, I was suppose to watch a live birth for one of my experiences, so I like all of my classmates showed up on the appointed day at L&D and told the RNs there what I was there for. Of course she was so upset that I, a man was going to be watching a woman give birth that she started almost yelling at the nurses station about how wrong this was. I was quite taken aback and really not sure what to do next. In the back of my mind I was thinking, "Am I the first male nursing student you've ever seen?" Fortunately, I didn't ask that.

About that time a short black man walked around the corner, laughing and asked her if she was serious? Turns out he was the OB here for the birth. He asked her how she figured he got his experience to be able to deliver the majority of the babies that are delivered in our hospital.

She was still quite upset that I would actually be in the room. So, she put me up at the head of the bed. Of course there were about a dozen family members, and the patient had already said ok to having me and one other nursing student in the room. The other nursing student was stationed where she had a direct view of everything.

A few minutes later, in walked the OB, he looked at me and said, "What the hell are you gonna see from there?" To which everyone laughed. He looked at the patient and said "Do you object to him seeing your son be born?" She again did not object, so he told me to come around and stand next to him. I'm fairly sure that nurse had actual steam coming out her ears when I moved to where he wanted me!

My point is that sometimes we put our concerns on our patients. Yes, we should be concerned with their comfort level, absolutely. If she had concerns, then fine, I would wait for another case. However, we need to also realize that some patients are perfectly fine with us as professionals doing our jobs. I think that goes for both males and females.

I often(usually) defer vag exams, and other procedures to my female counterparts when possible because its better for the patient. There have been shifts when there is only one or no female RNs on the team, and I explain to the pt that there will be a delay in care if they want a female to help with the exam, do the cath, etc. Some don't care, others do. I've even called the house supervisor and had her come down and assist because there was no other female to do the job.

I think one of the things I like the most about my ED is the teamwork. Just the other day one of my female RN colleagues asked me to discharge a pt. Said he wouldn't take no from her about more pain meds and the provider didn't want to give him more. I walked in and told him he was discharged, gave him his instructions, no argument, sign, sign, walked out the door. I help my colleagues, they help me and the patients get what they need. That is what we are here for.

[exit96]

I still wonder.. Can a man go into a female patients room and by himself, remove her clothing, inspect her bits and insert a foley without another staff member present?

I wouldn't want to. I mean I have on elderly, compromised mental status patients, but I wouldn't even consider going in alone on any besides the compromised elderly. UNLESS it was a true emergency, then my concern for the patient, I believe and would hope, would be recognized as just that. I would ask the secretary, other female personnel to go with me if I had to, I would not go in alone.