Will DNPs be chosen over MSNs?

  1. There has been a lot of talk about the possible saturation of the NP market as well as that of other advanced practice nursing roles (CRNA for example) and I am just wondering if this is true, then will the DNP new grads have a better chance at obtaining a job then MSNs will? I am just wondering if it will be the same as when the market got tight for RNs, and BSNs were hired over ASNs and diploma nurses. Do you all anticipate the same situation occuring in Advanced Practice Nursing, even if the "requirement" isn't fully implemented?
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  2. 62 Comments

  3. by   linearthinker
    I doubt it. I think individuals will be chosen on their merits.], and a degree is only one aspect.
  4. by   Jasil
    Saturation? What does that mean to you? I definitely think there will be in time there are just too many schools/programs popping up all over. Think about there are already as many DNP programs as there are MD/DO programs doesn't that seem very very weird?

    I am not a fan of the DNP at all........nursing needs to incorporate more hands on hours and less theory all imo.
  5. by   CRF250Xpert
    The next time you are in a clinic, ask your MD or DO preceptor if he knows what a DNP is. There's your answer.
  6. by   elkpark
    Are you asking about a new grad DNP being preferred over an MSN-prepared person with experience and a proven track record? Or two equally inexperienced new graduates, one with a DNP and one with an MSN?

    Also, I agree with CRF250Xpert -- in my experience over the years, no one outside of nursing understands how advanced education, degrees, and credentials in nursing work anyway, and they don't really care. You're lucky if someone understands clearly what an NP or CRNA is, let alone why they should care whether you have one degree vs. another. People care about the clinical role/scope -- whether you're an NP/CRNA/whatever -- not whether or not the degree you took to get there included courses in healthcare systems financing, leadership, healthcare policy, etc.
  7. by   CCRNDiva
    Amen to that Elkpark:bowingpur
  8. by   llg
    I think it is a matter of time and local market conditions. If most of the people within a specific region have DNP's and many of the people doing the hiring have DNP's, then they will probably prefer to hire DNP's.

    But that's not the case at the moment. At the moment, the DNP is still new enough to be in the minority. In another 20 years, the situation may well be different if more and more schools switch away from offerering the advanced practice MSN's and replace those programs with DNP programs (as is now happening in many communities). If that trend continues, the MSN's will find themselves in the minority -- and at that point, they may see more jobs going to the DNP's -- because that will be the new community standard.

    So ... if I were late in my career, I wouldn't worry about it at the moment. But if I were young and anticipating 30-40 career years ahead of me, I would be planning to get the higher level of education.
  9. by   CCRNDiva
    Quote from llg
    I think it is a matter of time and local market conditions. If most of the people within a specific region have DNP's and many of the people doing the hiring have DNP's, then they will probably prefer to hire DNP's.

    But that's not the case at the moment. At the moment, the DNP is still new enough to be in the minority. In another 20 years, the situation may well be different if more and more schools switch away from offerering the advanced practice MSN's and replace those programs with DNP programs (as is now happening in many communities). If that trend continues, the MSN's will find themselves in the minority -- and at that point, they may see more jobs going to the DNP's -- because that will be the new community standard.

    So ... if I were late in my career, I wouldn't worry about it at the moment. But if I were young and anticipating 30-40 career years ahead of me, I would be planning to get the higher level of education.
    While I understand your point in many ways, I must admit that I'm frustrated with the framework of DNP education. I looked into applying to a DNP program at a prominent university but I was stumped by the essay question. They wanted an essay to discuss what leadership position I see myself in 3-5 years, ie a VP of nursing, national lecturer, etc (these were some of the specific examples listed). I couldn't couldn't answer the question because I don't see myself in administration/ leadership position. I just want to take care of critically ill patients. I do not have any desire to run a hospital or nursing unit. I just want to provide optimum care to my patients, but the DNP programs I've investigated do not provide for that. They're aimed at forming leaders of organizations, formers of policy, etc. I would love a doctoral program that expanded clinical knowledge ie pathophysiology, residencies, etc. I don't have the desire to complete a program that requires a 3 yr research project that is predominantly population/leadership based.

    The powers that be continue to remind us that many healthcare professions now require a doctorate but they fail to acknowledge that they are not grooming or forcing them into the role of administrator. The overwhelming majority of physicians desire to treat patients not become hospital administrators. I don't understand why a doctoral degree for the NP profession cannot focus on the clinical aspect as well.
  10. by   Jasil
    Yep!!! Too much theory not enough clinical hours!!
  11. by   eglide87
    Being a current MSN-NP, I can't imagine that dnp's will be choosen over msn's. There is nothing in their educational framework that lends to them being able to do any more than current NP's can. From what I can see, it appears to be more of a degree designed to promote leadership and research instead of furthering patient care.
  12. by   CRF250Xpert
    Quote from llg
    I think it is a matter of time and local market conditions. If most of the people within a specific region have DNP's and many of the people doing the hiring have DNP's, then they will probably prefer to hire DNP's.

    In what setting do nurses hire providers? Or are you speaking of a NP owned clinic where the owner is a DNP? Nurse owned clinics vs physician owned practices are 1:1000.
  13. by   llg
    Quote from CCRNDiva
    While I understand your point in many ways, I must admit that I'm frustrated with the framework of DNP education. I looked into applying to a DNP program at a prominent university but I was stumped by the essay question. They wanted an essay to discuss what leadership position I see myself in 3-5 years, ie a VP of nursing, national lecturer, etc (these were some of the specific examples listed). I couldn't couldn't answer the question because I don't see myself in administration/ leadership position. I just want to take care of critically ill patients. .
    So ... what role/job do you see yourself in? A staff nurse role? An APN at the bedside of an ICU patient? etc. I would start your essay by discussing the role you see for yourself and then discuss the type of leadership provided by nurses in that role. Even staff nurses can (and should) be leaders. If you are not interested in ANY aspect of leadership, then perhaps you don't need an advanced education.

    Another aspect of this situation that may apply to you ... A lot of us get education that isn't exactly required to do our jobs. For example, I have a PhD -- but I have a job that doesn't require a PhD and I certainly don't use all of the advanced theory, research, and philosophy work I did in my PhD program. That doesn't mean it was a waste of time for me. It enriched my understanding of nursing and the world around me and I am glad I invested my time, effort, and money in that education. While I don't use all of it in my current job, I use bits and pieces of it. And who knows what I might find helpful tomorrow?

    The DNP situation is still "new" and "evolving." It's not perfect ... but then, neither is anything else. None of us can predict the future. But we can look at the past and present -- and they indicate that nursing is moving towards higher levels of education for most roles. Don't ignore that fact as you think through what makes the most sense for you and your career goals.

    Good luck with whatever you decide.
  14. by   CRF250Xpert
    Quote from llg
    If you are not interested in ANY aspect of leadership, then perhaps you don't need an advanced education.
    So with that rationale:
    Once the consensus model is the gold standard and all APNs are DNPs, every new DNP will be expected to achieve some leadership role (that's why they went back to college according to your rationale)? Who is going to do the exam, make the Dx, and write the plan? I'm confused. If the clinic is filled with highly educated upward mover DNP's (all striving for a leadership slot according to your rationale) - who sees the patients? Rest assured, it won't be me.
    Some places rely on ICD9 coding to bill and get reimbursed so we can keep the lights on and get paid (yes, I suck - I do this for money). The "all chiefs and no Indians" model doesn't work long term.

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