Should the "Doctor" title really be an issue?

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The number one arguement against DNPs using the title Doctor, especially in the clinical setting, is that it might confuse patients. Ignoring the fact the most DNPs clarify that they are not medical doctors, should this even be an issue?My thoughts:- Most patients already think they are seeing a doctor even if you tell them you are a NP or PA- Even if they think you are a MD (so long as you aren't intentionally trying to make them think that) what difference does it make? You might not be trained to the same standards but you are trained to do your job. It's not like you are a carpenter pretending to be a plumber.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
I'm not real familiar with anesthetic practice but on a basic level a CRNA is providing advanced nursing care and a anesthesiologist is providing medical care. If its the case that nurse anesthetists and anesthesiologists practice overlap 100% then the distinction is only a legal one. How much do the two disaplines overlap?

There is no differences in the standards between the two when providing anesthesia. Depending on where you work the two types of providers can be completely interchangeable or commonly you will see anesthesiologists working in an anesthesia care team environment where they provide medical direction and/or supervision,.

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Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

So, you are not a CRNA yet here you are telling us the difference in practice between CRNA and MDA? REALLY?

There is NO distinction legally. We are judged LEGALLY, IN COURT to the EXACT same standards.

WE DO THE EXACT SAME JOB.

BTW, I also do the EXACT same job when I'm working as a NP in the clinic, inpatient or ER. Guess what, I'm also judged by the exact same standards there as a family practice physician.

So, I'm not trying to be offensive, really. But you are not even an advanced practice nurse yet trying to tell us the difference in practice and standards.

I'm not real familiar with anesthetic practice but on a basic level a CRNA is providing advanced nursing care and a anesthesiologist is providing medical care. If its the case that nurse anesthetists and anesthesiologists practice overlap 100% then the distinction is only a legal one. How much do the two disaplines overlap?
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Why do they even need to say they are a nurse? Physicians don't clarify usually. As long as you aren't saying that you are a physician I don't see the problem.

EXACTLY.

MDs do NOT own the title 'doctor'. They DO own the title of 'physician'.

They need to get over themselves.

"Good morning, I'm Dr. Carolinapooh, and I'm your nurse practitioner today." A completely correct and completely appropriate thing to say (if you are actually a DNP, which I'm not. Yet.) :)

The public really needs to be educated on what that means, because they're going to be running into more and more of these cases. Not wanting to confuse Joe Patient to me is condescending, that we're implying Joe Pt isn't bright enough to learn the difference in the first place.

They don't own "doctor", and they need to start figuring that out.

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There is no differences in the standards between the two when providing anesthesia. Depending on where you work the two types of providers can be completely interchangeable or commonly you will see anesthesiologists working in an anesthesia care team environment where they provide medical direction and/or supervision,.

I've often wondered this; thanks for the clarification. :)

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The term "nurse" is also legally protected. People can face serious charges by saying they are a nurse when they aren't.

Technically, we are ALL doctors, because the term "doctor" in Latin means "teacher." Sooo....there's another one for ya....should we call teachers "doctor"?

Yep. Every single one who has a PhD should be designated as such. And good on them.

(I do hear what you're saying, though, and I love the irony and sarcasm. As you can imagine. :))

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It's an earned title and anyone who has it should use...period! If physicians don't like it, they should introduce themselves as the following:" Hello, I am doctor so and so, with a medical degree"... no confusion there!

"I am Doctor X, and I will be your physician." THAT'S correct and very simple to understand. :)

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I've seen orders written from MD's to pharmacists and the MD addressed the pharmacist In the order as "Dr". Anyone with a doctorate has earned that title. I do think until the public has been educated (may never happen) DNP's should probably introduce themselves as "I'm Dr so-and-so your nurse practitioner". Although I have plans to get my DNP and I'm pretty sure I'll just introduce myself by my first name. I found working in the hospital the patients could care less I was the RN and the other person helping them was a tech. They didn't care about titles at all, they just wanted help however they could get it.

I bolded that statement above. It won't IF WE DON'T START DOING IT and stop assuming the public is too daft to know the difference. Because saying (and I'm not accusing you of this), 'oh, Joe Citizen will be too confused if we do that' assumes Joe is an idiot.

To me, it also belittles both the degree and the practitioner. You could say, "Hi, I'm Dr. Rizz, your nurse practitioner today, but you can call me Sam."

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
I've often wondered this; thanks for the clarification. :)

In the USAF CRNAs have completely independent practice. We have the best scope of practice in the entire military!!...lol Not that I am bragging or anything.

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I introduce myself as Doctor xxx, a nurse anesthetist or Doctor xxxx, a nurse practitioner. I earned the title. I'm damn well going to use it.

AND, no the patients are not confused.

YAYYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!!!!!!! :coffee:

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So, you are not a CRNA yet here you are telling us the difference in practice between CRNA and MDA? REALLY?

There is NO distinction legally. We are judged LEGALLY, IN COURT to the EXACT same standards.

.

God forbid I try to tell you ANYTHING, oh great and mighty CRNA. I'm just a lowly generalist who can barely figure out how to wash my hands. Please excuse my arrogance...

As far as legal distinctions go, yes their is a difference. It might be abstract but there is a difference. I believe their was a court case that said when CRNAs administer anesthesia it is the practice of nursing and not medicine. That might not be a big practical difference but it is a HUGE legal one.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
God forbid I try to tell you ANYTHING, oh great and mighty CRNA. I'm just a lowly generalist who can barely figure out how to wash my hands. Please excuse my arrogance...

As far as legal distinctions go, yes their is a difference. It might be abstract but there is a difference. I believe their was a court case that said when CRNAs administer anesthesia it is the practice of nursing and not medicine. That might not be a big practical difference but it is a HUGE legal one.

Actually, the case and several other ones that are similar to it have to do with various medical societies trying to sue nurses,especially APNs, stating that APNs were practicing medicine. The courts since the early 1900s have decided that as long you were trained in that area, and the BON allows it then it is a practice of nursing even though we are doing the same thing as our physician colleagues. There has also been similar cases concerning podiatrists.

These cases are different than determining if standard of care was met. When providing anesthesia there is not a separate standard for CRNAs and one for anesthesiologists. It can get confusing when you read about anesthesia malpractice cases in ACT practices.

FYI: every APN has to go through at least one semester medical legal training during school concerning APN/CRNA medical-legal issues. The class is often combined with medical ethics. I have had a little over two semesters now of CRNA medical-legal training, and it is still confusing for me.

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Doctor is an educational title. MDs are not the only one who hold that title, there are many others who hold that Doctor title. Your can be a Doctor of Nursing, but your occupation a registered nurse in whatever field. Remember Doctor is an educational title not an occupation.

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