Should the "Doctor" title really be an issue? - page 3
The number one arguement against DNPs using the title Doctor, especially in the clinical setting, is that it might confuse patients. Ignoring the fact the most DNPs clarify that they are not medical... Read More
4May 19, '13 by wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA GuideQuote from CortisolAnd still the most dangerous time to be admitted to a hospital is in the summer when the new residents start... So I guess all those exams really mean a lot.First and foremost, medical residents are required to do more than just "graduate from medical school" before earning the right to use their doctor title on the floor. They are required to pass a minimum of three US Medical Licensing Examinations (two written exams and a clinical exam) as well as hold a medical degree before they enter residency. Furthermore, most states allow residents with one or two years of residency training who are US medical school graduates apply for full licensure.
Residents should still introduce themselves as residents even though they have earned their doctorate. Physicians have done more to willfully deceive the public than any other medical profession ever has.Last edit by wtbcrna on May 20, '13
1Jun 1, '13 by SE_BSN_RNQuote from wtbcrnaExactly!!And why is there not as much uproar when you go to the clinic to see your physician and the MA's are "nurses"? So they don't confuse anyone? I know for a fact, my physician's office has NO nurses employed there!It is funny it only really becomes an issue when nurses call themselves Doctor. I don't hear an uproar from physicians when chiropractors, psychologists, and/or podiatrists call themselves doctors but the moment a nurse introduces themselves as Dr. X the nurse it is suddenly a crisis of patient confusion and safety. A doctorate is an academic degree, and there are numerous types of doctorates that a person can earn. Any person that earns a doctorate may have a reasonable expectation to be called by Dr. "X". Being a non-physician and being called a doctor does nothing, but harm a select few physician egos.
1Jun 1, '13 by SE_BSN_RNQuote from mudphudstudentThe term "nurse" is also legally protected. People can face serious charges by saying they are a nurse when they aren't.I'm a 3rd year medical student with a PhD in engineering (MD/PhD program). I NEVER introduce myself as Dr. ____ when I see patients because it would be confusing and dishonest since I am not a medical doctor. The ONLY people who should go by Dr. in a clinical setting have the following degrees: MD/DO, DDS/DMD, DPM, +/- OD. If you're at a vet hospital or clinic then a DVM can go by "doctor". There is a reason some states protect the use of the term "doctor" in a clinical setting: it's not to diminish the worth of degrees, it's to not confuse and mislead patients. For this reason, I've never heard a physical therapist or pharmacist go by "doctor" in a clinical setting (or in any setting) even though they have doctorates. DNPs shouldn't use the term "doctor" when introducing themselves to patients for the same reason I don't introduce myself as Dr. ____.
Technically, we are ALL doctors, because the term "doctor" in Latin means "teacher." Sooo....there's another one for ya....should we call teachers "doctor"?Last edit by SE_BSN_RN on Jun 1, '13
2Jun 1, '13 by nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NPI introduce myself as Doctor xxx, a nurse anesthetist or Doctor xxxx, a nurse practitioner. I earned the title. I'm damn well going to use it.
AND, no the patients are not confused.
Quote from manuskoI don't understand the problem. If someone is going to see a pt and they announce themselves as doctor, then I see the problem. I introduce myself as a student registered nurse anesthetist to my PTs. My CRNAs introduce themselves as a nurse anesthetist. I have never heard them say nurse anesthetist with a MSN in anesthesia.
Yes, doctor is an earned title and it should be part of your title but I personally would not introduce myself as Dr to a pt.
1Jun 1, '13 by nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NPSycamoreGuy,
We ARE trained to practice at the same standards. We are also JUDGED on the same standards.
Quote from SycamoreGuyThe number one arguement against DNPs using the title Doctor, especially in the clinical setting, is that it might confuse patients. Ignoring the fact the most DNPs clarify that they are not medical doctors, should this even be an issue?My thoughts:- Most patients already think they are seeing a doctor even if you tell them you are a NP or PA- Even if they think you are a MD (so long as you aren't intentionally trying to make them think that) what difference does it make? You might not be trained to the same standards but you are trained to do your job. It's not like you are a carpenter pretending to be a plumber.Last edit by nomadcrna on Jun 1, '13
0Jun 1, '13 by manuskoQuote from nomadcrnaEven when I say student registered nurse anesthetist, some patients say "oh you are the anesthesiologist". They are confused at times, but I was called Dr when I was an ICU nurse. I just think getting hung up on titles is just a bit ridiculous at times. I have seen many nurses I have worked with use 6 titles behind their names and it looks ridiculous. I work with an anesthesiologist who introduces himself as such but tells the pt to call him by his first name.I introduce myself as Doctor xxx, a nurse anesthetist or Doctor xxxx, a nurse practitioner. I earned the title. I'm damn well going to use it.
AND, no the patients are not confused.
So be proud, I wasn't saying not to but I can see where confusion may happen and if you don't then you are kidding yourself. Most of the general public probably does not know the difference between a nurse anesthetist and an anesthesiologist. Even my family asks how much more school I need to be a Dr? And they mean a physician. They don't understand how a nurse can be a doctor.
0Jun 1, '13 by wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA GuideQuote from SycamoreGuyWhat standard is different when a CRNA does anesthesia and when an anesthesiologist does anesthesia?Overlapping standards not the same standards. But, yes when preforming in the functions that overlap both are held to the same standard.
0Jun 1, '13 by BostonFNP, MSN, DNP, NP GuideQuote from nomadcrnaWe were just talking about this over lunch last week, it's interesting how that works. We have to meet the same clinical outcomes but are reimbursed less, interesting.
We are also JUDGED on the same standards.
I always go by first name to my patients though I have a handful that insist on calling me "doctor" despite my corrections. Truth be told, my collaborating MD encourages them to call me that even though I don't like it or feel comfortable with it.
At times in the hospital it irks me that I will consult round on a patient I don't know with one of speciality residents and they introduce themselves as Dr Fancypants and I simply say my name and that I am the covering NP: they assume I am their nurse and the consult specialist is calling the shots, then get confused.
0Jun 2, '13 by SycamoreGuyQuote from wtbcrnaI'm not real familiar with anesthetic practice but on a basic level a CRNA is providing advanced nursing care and a anesthesiologist is providing medical care. If its the case that nurse anesthetists and anesthesiologists practice overlap 100% then the distinction is only a legal one. How much do the two disaplines overlap?What standard is different when a CRNA does anesthesia and when an anesthesiologist does anesthesia?
0Jun 2, '13 by wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA GuideQuote from SycamoreGuyThere is no differences in the standards between the two when providing anesthesia. Depending on where you work the two types of providers can be completely interchangeable or commonly you will see anesthesiologists working in an anesthesia care team environment where they provide medical direction and/or supervision,.I'm not real familiar with anesthetic practice but on a basic level a CRNA is providing advanced nursing care and a anesthesiologist is providing medical care. If its the case that nurse anesthetists and anesthesiologists practice overlap 100% then the distinction is only a legal one. How much do the two disaplines overlap?
2Jun 2, '13 by nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NPSo, you are not a CRNA yet here you are telling us the difference in practice between CRNA and MDA? REALLY?
There is NO distinction legally. We are judged LEGALLY, IN COURT to the EXACT same standards.
WE DO THE EXACT SAME JOB.
BTW, I also do the EXACT same job when I'm working as a NP in the clinic, inpatient or ER. Guess what, I'm also judged by the exact same standards there as a family practice physician.
So, I'm not trying to be offensive, really. But you are not even an advanced practice nurse yet trying to tell us the difference in practice and standards.
Quote from SycamoreGuyI'm not real familiar with anesthetic practice but on a basic level a CRNA is providing advanced nursing care and a anesthesiologist is providing medical care. If its the case that nurse anesthetists and anesthesiologists practice overlap 100% then the distinction is only a legal one. How much do the two disaplines overlap?
3Jun 2, '13 by carolinapoohQuote from SycamoreGuyEXACTLY.Why do they even need to say they are a nurse? Physicians don't clarify usually. As long as you aren't saying that you are a physician I don't see the problem.
MDs do NOT own the title 'doctor'. They DO own the title of 'physician'.
They need to get over themselves.
"Good morning, I'm Dr. Carolinapooh, and I'm your nurse practitioner today." A completely correct and completely appropriate thing to say (if you are actually a DNP, which I'm not. Yet.)
The public really needs to be educated on what that means, because they're going to be running into more and more of these cases. Not wanting to confuse Joe Patient to me is condescending, that we're implying Joe Pt isn't bright enough to learn the difference in the first place.
They don't own "doctor", and they need to start figuring that out.Last edit by carolinapooh on Jun 2, '13 : Reason: correct my stupid autokerwrecked.....