DNP vs MD - page 7

by healthstar 51,223 Views | 94 Comments

What is the difference between DNP and MD? How long does it take to become a DNP if you already have BSN degree? I thought nurses had problems with docs, but one day I visited the student doctor website and I was surprised to see... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from IndiCRNA
    It can be a bad thing. We advanced pracactice nurses are supposed to be cost effective providers of health care. Among the things that makes us cost effective is the low cost of training an advanced practice nurse vs the cost of training a physican. Our much lower investment in education and time allowes us to provide health care for less.
    If the focus of the DNP was more clinical training to create providers with broader skills that allowed them to independantly care for more complex patients in a wider variety of settings I might go along with it. However it doesn't. The advanced practice nurses coming out of DNP programs are no better prepared clinicaly, and have the same scope as those coming out of masters programs.
    For example one CRNA program here in the midwest went from a 24 month MSN program to a 36 month DNP program. Not one single clinical hour or clinical based class was added to the program. The students actually do the DNP portion of their program first, then enter the exact same 24 month anesthesia program as they alwasy did. This adds a lot to the cost. If I had attended that program rather than a masters program like I did I would owe a lot more money, about $100K more plus I would not have made the $300K I am making the first year. So a DNP program would cost me $400K more than the masters program.
    The cost argument does not work, because APNs are still paying for the bulk of their education whereas physicians do not. APNs will always be the cheapest of the two providers as far as the general public is concerned. Physicians may pay for a large part of their medical school, even that is often highly subsidized, but residency is mostly paid for by CMS. The cost to educate an anesthesiologist is around 1mil+ with little of that coming from the actual physician. APNs are virtual cash cows to universities and is one of the reasons that so many universities are opting to open and/or expand APN programs.
    Also, the COA has proposed that all CRNA move to a minimum of a 36month program. That proposal if and when it does happen will be before the DNP/DNAP requirement date. IMO 24month CRNA programs will not last. There is too much information now for a 24 month CRNA program to produce high quality independent CRNA graduates that have the knowledge to practice independently and utilize/understand new research.
  2. 0
    Quote from wtbcrna
    Also, the COA has proposed that all CRNA move to a minimum of a 36month program. That proposal if and when it does happen will be before the DNP/DNAP requirement date. IMO 24month CRNA programs will not last. There is too much information now for a 24 month CRNA program to produce high quality independent CRNA graduates that have the knowledge to practice independently and utilize/understand new research.
    I am sure it will happen. Seems abserd to me. My program was 27 months and contained plenty of make work fluff. I have a hard time believing the 36 months is needed for competent and safe delivery of anesthesia by CRNAs.
  3. 1
    DNP is meant to prepare a person to be a primary care provider from a nursing orientation. MD is meant to prepare a person to be a primary care provider from a medical orientation. If you aren't conversant with the difference between those two orientations, then the difference won't make a lot of sense.

    I summarize it this way: the MD is there to cure the patient, usually by fighting/defeating the disease/injury.

    The nurse is there to heal the patient; usually by finding ways for the patient's understanding/reaction to their health/wellness situation to be maximally functional.

    Sometimes these overlap and are almost identical, sometimes they are vastly different.

    Dian
    SHGR likes this.
  4. 3
    Quote from newtinmpls
    DNP is meant to prepare a person to be a primary care provider from a nursing orientation. MD is meant to prepare a person to be a primary care provider from a medical orientation. If you aren't conversant with the difference between those two orientations, then the difference won't make a lot of sense. I summarize it this way: the MD is there to cure the patient, usually by fighting/defeating the disease/injury.The nurse is there to heal the patient; usually by finding ways for the patient's understanding/reaction to their health/wellness situation to be maximally functional. Sometimes these overlap and are almost identical, sometimes they are vastly different. Dian
    Hmm..since I took classes and trained right along side anesthesiology residents I would say that line between medical and nursing training is very grey not black and white.
  5. 1
    Quote from ScottE,RN
    I don't even know if it is threatened so much as it is just engaging in a ******* contest that a vast majority of people seem to enjoy. Look my degree penis is bigger than your degree penis, I'm better and more important that you, and so on and so forth.
    carolinapooh likes this.
  6. 0
    The DNP degree needs to be clarified. Its initial intent was for clinical practice, but I can't see the utility of having administrators without any premise for clinical practice (which is far too often the case with nursing) be allotted a clinical degree, unless it is clearly delineated.
  7. 0
    Quote from wtbcrna
    The cost argument does not work, because APNs are still paying for the bulk of their education whereas physicians do not. APNs will always be the cheapest of the two providers as far as the general public is concerned. Physicians may pay for a large part of their medical school, even that is often highly subsidized, but residency is mostly paid for by CMS. The cost to educate an anesthesiologist is around 1mil+ with little of that coming from the actual physician. APNs are virtual cash cows to universities and is one of the reasons that so many universities are opting to open and/or expand APN programs.
    Also, the COA has proposed that all CRNA move to a minimum of a 36month program. That proposal if and when it does happen will be before the DNP/DNAP requirement date. IMO 24month CRNA programs will not last. There is too much information now for a 24 month CRNA program to produce high quality independent CRNA graduates that have the knowledge to practice independently and utilize/understand new research.
    I just don't see the reasoning of this. But I'm by no means criticizing this position.

    I just think an increased load of education without quantifiable, measurable gains for the student makes education more prohibitive.
  8. 1
    Quote from DragonNP
    The DNP degree needs to be clarified. Its initial intent was for clinical practice, but I can't see the utility of having administrators without any premise for clinical practice (which is far too often the case with nursing) be allotted a clinical degree, unless it is clearly delineated.
    The DNP is designed to give clinicians the tools needed to evaluate the most recent research and implement it in their practice. You can argue about whether or not that is worth while but that is really what the DNP is designed for.
    wtbcrna likes this.
  9. 0
    Quote from SycamoreGuy
    The DNP is designed to give clinicians the tools needed to evaluate the most recent research and implement it in their practice. You can argue about whether or not that is worth while but that is really what the DNP is designed for.
    Guess what? When I was in my MSN program 20 years ago, that's exactly what I was told my MSN was designed to do. That, and prepare me for the advanced practice role I was pursuing.
  10. 3
    This is absolutely not true. Now if you replace DNP with PhD, you would be correct.

    A DNP is a practice doctorate.
    A PhD is a teaching/research doctorate.

    Quote from Fribblet
    A person who has attained a DNP is a nurse with an advanced degree who focuses on teaching and research.

    And MD is a person with a professional degree who is licensed to diagnose and treat patients with medical needs.

    A DNP will not make you a MD.
    carolinapooh, elkpark, and wtbcrna like this.


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