2015 DNP

[BabyLady]

I am wondering if anyone has heard any updates.

Everything I keep seeing online from the AACN is "recommendation", "strongly encouraged", "highly suggested".

I have yet to see anything, that says, "Look, either you graduate and pass your boards by January 1, 2015 or you can put the MSN you have in back of the closet and start working on your DNP, because the MSN isn't good enough anymore to sit for national certification."

There are many of us, including myself, that will be finishing probably in 2013 or 2014...now, we would all like to think that we would pass our certification the first go-round, but we all know that may or may not happen for some of us.

Example: You graduate in June 2014 with your MSN and it is January, 2015, you still cannot pass your certification exam...does that mean you have to go back to school or you cannot practice?

I have seen some colleges that have completely phased out MSN programs but I have seen MANY that have not...that makes me wonder if it is not going to be a "go" like they are claiming that it is.

I would love to hear from those that keep up with this sort of thing...that may have more insight.

[ccso962]

Neither of those are clinical Doctorates (I'm not sure what the DHSc is....Doctorate of Health Science, I know, but I don't think it's tied to a clinical role at all).

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He actually got the DHSc for completing a PA residency and taking some additional classes while was in the one year PA residency, so it was very much tied to a clinical role. Just pointing this out since you said you weren't familiar with this degree. I think other places award a DHSc for things like radiographers, etc. who take extra classes and those may not be clinically oriented I don't know.

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

I am not really interested in "gaining respect" from the MD community. I think it is inevitable, but it isn't a primary goal or reason to pursue a DNP. So far I have taken 1 DNP course, and it has taught me that there is a ton of relatively crucial stuff I do not know, lol. I think the more I know, the better I'll do my job in all aspects. If everyone else learns the same stuff in their MSN program or on their own, great for them. I didn't and I'm just glad to have the opportunity. I don't really care about using the title Doctor. If arrogant people didn't try to tell me I can not, it would probably never have occurred to me to call myself anything but my first name! Speaking for myself, it was the naysayers that made it an issue!

[CuriousMe]

I am not really interested in "gaining respect" from the MD community. I think it is inevitable, but it isn't a primary goal or reason to pursue a DNP. So far I have taken 1 DNP course, and it has taught me that there is a ton of relatively crucial stuff I do not know, lol. I think the more I know, the better I'll do my job in all aspects. If everyone else learns the same stuff in their MSN program or on their own, great for them. I didn't and I'm just glad to have the opportunity. I don't really care about using the title Doctor. If arrogant people didn't try to tell me I can not, it would probably never have occurred to me to call myself anything but my first name! Speaking for myself, it was the naysayers that made it an issue![/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more!!

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

Well that's really the bottom line for me. I am sure it is different for others. Personally, I don't know any NPs that go by Mr or Ms Lastname, so it just seemed really odd to me that a NP would further their education, earn the DNP, and suddenly go from being Sue or Tom, to Dr. Smith. Just really, really incongruent. However, if I had some jackorifice telling me I shouldn't or couldn't, you bet your boots I would! I'm contrary like that, lol.

I used to be staunchly opposed (for myself only, I've always been indifferent to what others do) to using the title Doctor, but now I think I will, just to make the point (which is, I don't work for you, I am not subservient to you, and you are not the boss of me ) Had some not made such a federal case out of it, it wouldn't even have been a thought.

[ccso962]

If arrogant people didn't try to tell me I can not, it would probably never have occurred to me to call myself anything but my first name!

Like I have said previously I am all for anyone who has an earned doctorate being allowed to call themselves doctor (even if its not a clinically oriented doctorate) in a clinical setting (i.e. a research biologist with a PhD working in a hospital's lab, etc.). However, I would have to say to call yourself doctor because its what you want to do NOT because some arrogant person says you can't. In my line of thinking, and this is purely my own opinion, this does nothing more than give credence and recognition to those arrogant people (and believe me they are in every field not just medicine). Essentially you HAVE allowed someone who has NO control over you to exert the control of frustrating you enough to make you do something you weren't going to do in the first place. The only exception to this that I would say is that when talking from health care professional to health care professional if you are going to respect the MD by calling him Dr. Doe instead of just John then I think he owes you the respect of calling you doctor in return (of course only if you have a doctorate). I have always enjoyed going to an NP or PA when I am sick or for a check up more than an MD or DO in part because the visit seems more personal. The NP coming in and saying "Hi my name is Denise, how are you today" (for example) has always seemed more personal than a stiff person walking in in a nice starched lab coat and saying "My name is Dr. Smith, why did you come in today?" That said again I realize this may just be me, but it is one of the advantages I have found with seeing a mid-level provider for my care. Another is that they seem to carry that personal tone throughout the visit and during subsequent visits. To me an NP walking in and announcing themselves as "doctor" whoever would seem too much like the trip to the ER where the resident physician who is a good five years younger than me walks in and dryly announces he is a doctor and will be in charge of my care. The doctor's I have seen who prefer to be called by there first name (I worked with a great DO one time who insisted his name was John and got upset if you called him doctor) seem to put me more at ease if for no other reason than it seems more like talking human to human. After all a doctorate is not some sort of access to be more than human it is just a representation that you may have spent more years in school than some of us have.

As always my two cents worth, and still enjoying the lively discussion on this board.

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

You have a point about effectively being coerced into something I didn't want. Last year, a physician friend of my father's told me in a very haughty tone, "I will never call you Dr." I said, "when you call Dr. Jones (another mutual friend and colleague) on the phone, do you call him John, or Dr. Jones?" He says "John, of course." I said, "then why would you ever call me anything besides Linear?" He was speechless for a second and then just laughed, and said "You got me." We made peace, and at Christmas he introduced me to everyone at his party as "about to be a Doctor of Nursing Practice." He actually said this with some pride.

The moral of my story is, I think the so called "war" will be won in the hearts and minds based on individual interaction. Colleagues will come to respect one another's individual talents and professional attributes (or not, lol.) I have always enjoyed the respect of physician and nurse colleagues because of my intellect and work ethic. While I have a learning curve to navigate as a new NP, I have no reason it will be different in my new role. I think the semantics arguments are best left to what my son calls "haters, and underachievers." I never had a lot of interest in it, and soon just wont have the time.

Best regards-

[ccso962]

The moral of my story is, I think the so called "war" will be won in the hearts and minds based on individual interaction. Colleagues will come to respect one another's individual talents and professional attributes (or not, lol.)

I couldn't agree more. I think that this really sums up the issue. There will always be those little minded people who truly base all their self worth on what someone calls them, and they will insist that they should be the only ones to get that respect. Like you say, however, those that are in the profession for the right reasons will recognize the true professional by "individual interaction" and not by how arrogant they are over their title.

Now if we could just get everyone out there to see it that way... :) Good luck in your NP classes, and here's hoping you blow away the boards at test time. :)

[TeleMeMore]

Ahh I'm going numb with all of this! I just want to scream! I am in the same boat as the others who are recently admitted or already in a masters degree/NP program. When I graduate in 2014-2015 will I be able to freaking sit for the certification exam or NO?! Can this not be answered in a simple yes or no question? If not then I'm worried!

I just got all riled up because I was recently admitted into Depauls MSN/FNP program (I have a bsn now), and wanted to do it part time. The lady on the phone who is their academic advisor and kind of the head honcho of the nursing grad programs said it is possible and that I have 6 years to finish but the only problem is that in 2015 they are going to need a DNP degree to be eligible to sit. I told her I thought it was just a statement and nothing had been officially passed/changed - she said No, it passed, in 2015 you need a DNP to sit for certification. That they are admitting this last class and thats why there were swarms of applications.

WTH is going on? Did I just get lied to? How does someone in her position make such a bold statement without it being true? Or is it true? I'm in illinois and now, super confused.

I'm trying to research it but my head is hurting from it all!!

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

She must be trying to convey that the school has decided to no longer convey the MSN after that date because there is nothing on the world weird interwebs that says the measure has become law. Neither the AANP nor AANC website are saying that they are firmly requiring a DNP to sit for exams beginning in 2015 and I know of no state that has said it will not license MSN grads who pass the boards. So I don't think she lied, I think she's just confuzzled. A lot fo people are. It's going to take a few years to sort it all out. Go ahead and get started and tackle hurdles as they come up. No worries.

[elkpark]

WTH is going on? Did I just get lied to? How does someone in her position make such a bold statement without it being true? Or is it true? I'm in illinois and now, super confused.

I'm trying to research it but my head is hurting from it all!!

I second linearthinker. We've had lots of students post here asking about this (or advising others), stating that it is a fact that the DNP is going to be mandatory/required as of 2015, because a faculty member at their school told them this. I don't know if these faculty people are that misinformed, the student misunderstood what the instructor was saying (having taught nursing myself, I know that happens plenty :)), or the instructor is pushing some agenda of her/his (or the school's) own.

But, so far, this is still a proposal, not a requirement. Lots of schools are switching over, as you are experiencing, from MSN programs to DNP programs for their advanced practice concentrations, and this may become a moot point for a lot of people because it will become difficult to find an MSN program, depending on where you live and what your interests are -- but there's a big difference between schools offering a degree and states and certifying organizations requiring it.

As far as I know so far, the only advanced practice group in the real world (as opposed to the "groves of academe" :))that has embraced this idea is the CRNAs; their target date for requiring the doctorate is 2025, not 2015; and it still remains to be seen whether that will actually happen.

[TeleMeMore]

Thank you so much!

[nursemark29]

So here's the deal. I don't see our profession as being so malicious as to tell someone who has graduated an MSN level nurse practitioner program that they started before the year 2015, "Oh well. It's 2015 now. You need to get a DNP degree, or else we won't let you get licensed as a nurse practitioner." I'm absolutely certain that they will grandfather those people who were accepted into an MSN level N.P. program before the year 2015 so they can take their boards and practice for what they were trained to do. I will be done with my program in late 2013 or early 2014. Even if I were done in 2015, I would not worry, as I am certain I could easily present my case to the certifying body and would be granted an exception. As others have also stated, I do not know of even one certifying body that states a DNP will be required to be certified as a nurse practitioner. So for those of you that are worried, just concentrate on school and getting through it... that will be challenging enough. You will be a nurse practitioner when you are done.