2015 DNP

Specialties Doctoral

Published

I am wondering if anyone has heard any updates.

Everything I keep seeing online from the AACN is "recommendation", "strongly encouraged", "highly suggested".

I have yet to see anything, that says, "Look, either you graduate and pass your boards by January 1, 2015 or you can put the MSN you have in back of the closet and start working on your DNP, because the MSN isn't good enough anymore to sit for national certification."

There are many of us, including myself, that will be finishing probably in 2013 or 2014...now, we would all like to think that we would pass our certification the first go-round, but we all know that may or may not happen for some of us.

Example: You graduate in June 2014 with your MSN and it is January, 2015, you still cannot pass your certification exam...does that mean you have to go back to school or you cannot practice?

I have seen some colleges that have completely phased out MSN programs but I have seen MANY that have not...that makes me wonder if it is not going to be a "go" like they are claiming that it is.

I would love to hear from those that keep up with this sort of thing...that may have more insight.

Anyone proposing to penalize others for pursuing further education seems fearful or threatened in my opinion. I would understand if they did not want to pay the DNP more money if they could hire an MSN for less but this line of thinking does not support the desire to provide a deeper knowledge base for the patients served. Many of these MDs have not investigated what the DNP entails and fiercely defend what is perceived as their territory while ignoring the benefits that a DNP could bring to an MDs practice and the patients. MDs that feel this way should provide specific objections to the curricula they feel is not necessary or inadaquate. Blanket statements and general conclusions are pointless and waste time and energy in this debate. Perhaps they fear eventually loosing their high incomes to DNPs. More than likely, money is at the bottom of this barrel as there was no discussion of what might bring the patients the greatest good. What kind of person would advocate for less education?....a greedy, territorial one ! DNP/ APRNs are here to stay so they may as well learn to live with it at least, and at best, advocate for the curriculum they feel would be more useful.

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I am notaware of "one" DNP program for nurse educators. Can you pleaseidentify one as I have several colleagues who would be interested.

They may not pay you more for the DNP , but they may not reimburse you unless you have a DNP. Reflect back to 1992 when the MS became the standard that was used for reimbursement by first the Feds and followed by private insurers.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I would understand if they did not want to pay the DNP more money if they could hire an MSN for less

*** There is no rational to pay an NP or CRNA with a DNP more. They can't bill at a higher rate and don't bring in more money to the practice.

but this line of thinking does not support the desire to provide a deeper knowledge base for the patients served. Many of these MDs have not investigated what the DNP entails and fiercely defend what is perceived as their territory

*** There is a very understandable and logical reason for MD to dislike and be defensive of the DNP. There have been and are people going round saying that the DNP with be physician equivalents, and even some people making statements about how silly it was for physicians to go to medical school when they could be ding the same thing with a DNP. Recently here on all nurses there was a discussion about DNP prepared NPs should be calling themselves physicians.

while ignoring the benefits that a DNP could bring to an MDs practice and the patients.

*** What benefits can a DNP bring to practice and patients not brought by MSN prepared NPs? The one university's DNP CRNA and NP program I am familiar with didn't add a single clinical hour or clinically related. Their students are doing the DNP portion first then going into the exact same NP and CRNA education they provided previously in the MSN program. Maybe not all of them are like that.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

American Association of Colleges of Nursing | Frequently Asked Questions (DNP FAQ from AACN it answers every question that has been posted on here)

The DNP isn't about getting more clinical hours. The DNP is supposed to make nurses experts in EBP.

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The DNP isn't about getting more clinical hours. The DNP is supposed to make nurses experts in EBP.

Which is exactly what my MSN program told me my MSN would do for me 15 years ago.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Which is exactly what my MSN program told me my MSN would do for me 15 years ago.

Have you read through the entire AACN document on the DNP? An MSN/APN will spend the majority of their time learning how to be APN not an expert in EBP. That doesn't consider the fact that MSN/APN programs are credit over loaded and need to move to a clinical doctorate based on credit hours alone.

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Have you read through the entire AACN document on the DNP?

I have, and I'm not impressed.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
I have, and I'm not impressed.

Then what would you suggest the degree should be for APNs that graduate with semester credit hours that far exceed the number of credit hours it normally takes for a generic Masters (I graduated with 82 semester credit hours for my MSN/CRNA), and how would you decrease the time it takes for research to come into practice (approximately 17yrs right now) without additional education on EBP?

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Then what would you suggest the degree should be for APNs that graduate with semester credit hours that far exceed the number of credit hours it normally takes for a generic Masters (I graduated with 82 semester credit hours for my MSN/CRNA), and how would you decrease the time it takes for research to come into practice (approximately 17yrs right now) without additional education on EBP?

I have no suggestions -- I am of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought on this. Feel free to think badly of me for that. And I doubt that "additional education on EBP" is going to make any significant difference.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
I have no suggestions -- I am of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought on this. Feel free to think badly of me for that. And I doubt that "additional education on EBP" is going to make any significant difference.

So...17 yrs to bring research into practice isn't broke or 82 semester hours to get an MSN that could have earned two generic Masters instead isn't broke? I'm not sure that your definition and my definition of broke are the same thing.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
That doesn't consider the fact that MSN/APN programs are credit over loaded and need to move to a clinical doctorate based on credit hours alone.

*** I believe you about the large number of credit hours for only a masters. However if that is a rational behind the DNP why no simply re-lable the MSN a DNP without adding another year and even more credits to the DNP?

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
*** I believe you about the large number of credit hours for only a masters. However if that is a rational behind the DNP why no simply re-lable the MSN a DNP without adding another year and even more credits to the DNP?

There are two problems: 1. The credit hours do not match the degree, and 2. the MSN isn't doing enough to address utilization of EBP.

Bringing research into practice is huge in academia and the government right now. There are even degrees that focus on this particular phenomenon. What is Translational Science? | Tufts Clinical and Translational Science Institute National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences (NCATS)

The DNP is one way nursing is addressing this problem.

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