2015 DNP - page 14

by BabyLady 81,870 Views | 235 Comments

I am wondering if anyone has heard any updates. Everything I keep seeing online from the AACN is "recommendation", "strongly encouraged", "highly suggested". I have yet to see anything, that says, "Look, either you... Read More


  1. 1
    Dissent:
    They are not "clinically less useful courses." They are extremely valuable and assist the NP to improve his/her knowledge base and understanding of health care delivery, and to use that knowledge to assist patients individually as well as communities as a whole. It isn't fluff, and it isn't less useful.

    If individual NPs do not feel driven to seek a DNP for themselves, I think that is fine, they should not be forced. However, when they criticize something they clearly do not understand, they debase themselves as well as their colleagues, and that is shameful.
    WyndDrivenRain likes this.
  2. 1
    Quote from bsnanat2
    In this whole debate, I wonder if anyone has run into this problem: I was discussing whether or not to pursue a DNP or MSN for advanced practice and a physcian chimed in that, while MD's in this area are beginning to see the advantage of APRN's over PA's (due to their previous nursing experience), he and some others would not consider a protocol agreement or employment of an APRN with a DNP. This doc (and others he claims) are opposed to what they think the DNP represents. He also mentioned that MD's are just as opposed to PA's having a doctorate as an entry to practice and stated that he has observed no notable benefit of PT's having a practice doctorate. Pharm is the only field that seems to have improved with it he says. What do you all think? Is this an isolated MD opinion?
    I don't think "isolated" is the correct word, I would say "minority," at least IME. I have not yet had any physician interviewing me voice anything but support and enthusiasm regarding my educational goals. I have had 2 classmates (out of 40) say that they have had negative reactions from physician colleagues. In the interest of honesty, both those instances were extreme to the point that both NPs left their jobs rather than continue to deal with the conflict. In each instance, they has enjoyed positive working relationships until such time as the NPs decided to pursue their higher education.

    I did have a negative response from 1 person a few years ago when I first told him of my plans, but he has since changed his tune after learning more about it from me. He was basing his former opinion on slanted pieces he read online and bits of gossip he overheard, etc. He has known me for years and has followed my progress throughout my program, and now says he is impressed with the breadth and depth of what we cover and admits he was wrong. I suspect that that will become more common place as the truth overtakes the rumor mongering.

    In the end, individual NPs should do what they feel personally compelled and driven to do and not concern themselves with the uninformed or biased opinions of others. I used to worry about the bias myself. After being in the program (or drinking the kool-aid, as some might say) I am so unspeakably impressed with my faculty, program and peers, that I have no reservations and no regrets.
    prairienp likes this.
  3. 3
    Quote from linearthinker
    Dissent:
    They are not "clinically less useful courses." They are extremely valuable and assist the NP to improve his/her knowledge base and understanding of health care delivery, and to use that knowledge to assist patients individually as well as communities as a whole. It isn't fluff, and it isn't less useful.

    If individual NPs do not feel driven to seek a DNP for themselves, I think that is fine, they should not be forced. However, when they criticize something they clearly do not understand, they debase themselves as well as their colleagues, and that is shameful.

    Your right, i'm sorry. What I meant was clinically useless courses.

    When you are spending half of your time learning about how to read a research paper or set up research or learning how the health care system is set up instead of actually how to treat patients you are not learning what should be a clinical practice doctorate. If you want this stuff, do an MPH. That's great you can read a research article of course you didn't learn how to properly treat or diagnose a host of clinical conditions. Your eyes cannot see what your brain doesn't know. But at least you can give a dissertation on health care delivery...

    Other NPs should be expecting more from their DNP rather than supporting this BS the administrators are saying is enough. If you want those classes and you really think they are needed, great. There should be twice as many credit hours in pharm, path and physio and twice as many clinical hours. If that means getting rid of the fluff, so be it. If you think they should stay then it means the DNP should be longer.
    globalRN, oldiebutgoodie, and CCRNDiva like this.
  4. 0
    You are demonstrating both stubborn ignorance and prejudice. I see no point in engaging you further.
  5. 2
    As an experienced APN (5+ years), I don't want a DNP. And...the likelihood of me seeing a DNP as the practice standard is slim to none.

    I go back to the 30+ year old prophecy that "BSN will be the only entry level to RN practice" diatribe!

    If you want a DNP, go for it - but in my area, that doesn't bring you more prestige, ability to care for pts or money. Just more student loan debt.
    globalRN and CCRNDiva like this.
  6. 2
    Quote from linearthinker
    You are demonstrating both stubborn ignorance and prejudice. I see no point in engaging you further.
    I think of it as expecting more from an extra year or so of loans. If it is supposed to be a clinical doctorate, it should have more clinical courses and vastly more clinical hours than a masters. Otherwise why have a doctorate? Milk it's students for more money? Try to compete with physicians (ie all political)?

    The research/statistic courses are somewhat helpful for reading literature but not at the expense a better foundation.

    I realize people like the idea of having a doctorate for entry but if it's adding little to a clinical practice, what is the use?

    I think students should speak up and expect more. Purely self directed learning is not the answer but without more basis in disease that is what it is coming down to. If self directed learning were adequate, we wouldn't need teachers and schools.
    globalRN and CCRNDiva like this.
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    Dissent,
    I have to reluctantly agree with you. Most DNP programs don't get it right. The good news on the DNP front is that most BSN to DNP programs are closer to what is needed than the post-masters programs. Even at that, things are still not what they should be. I am near 40. Is it worth almost double the cost and one to two years extra in time to get the DNP? Most BSN-DNP programs require 1,000 or more clinical hours, but not more foundation in patho, pharm or assessment. I have found some that do offer an additional physiology course and a diagnostics course, but is that worth it? I can do that on my own. Extra stats classes and tons more time researching and writing is not what I want. I would love to have a doctorate, but just don't see that happening. If I were teaching, yes it would be worth it, but as it is, I can get a masters in advanced practice and get a post-masters cert in a completely different population in the same amount of time, a little more clinical hours and way less money than a DNP. I am happy for (and a little jealous of) anyone who gets a DNP, but just don't see where its worth it for me. I think the flood of schools dumping their MSN programs for DNP's has slowed and I think a better focus for everyone would be promoting the APRN Consensus Model, defining parameters of independent practice. I must admit a little fear of the market being overly saturated and a MSN being devalued. Whether or not this happens is more threatened by direct entry to practice MSN's than DNP's. Some of these grads are rejected as NP's because they lack nursing experience. What happens then? They take a job at a lower wage just to get going. This could ultimately lead to lower wages for NP's. Just my fear. If the DNP train leaves the station maybe it'll slow the numbers growth. A doctorate degree is prestigious, but the DNP does not appear to be anymore useful than any other doctorate. The skills that people tout from a DNP can be gained from any doctorate. The fact of the matter is that most DNP programs don't get it right and for most people's practice, a DNP is simply not worth it.
    oldiebutgoodie likes this.
  8. 0
    Quote from linearthinker
    You are demonstrating both stubborn ignorance and prejudice. I see no point in engaging you further.
    *** Since you chose not to identify anyone I suspect you mean every other person engaged in this discusion when you say "you".
  9. 0
    Quote from linearthinker
    You are demonstrating both stubborn ignorance and prejudice. I see no point in engaging you further.
    Sorry, I think you are drinking the DNP Kool-Aid.

    Oldeibutgoodie
  10. 0
    DNP is a joke!! Clinical hours and more sciences gosh knows more theory and crap isn't needed. If it doesn't help you treat the patient it should be eliminated imo.
    Last edit by Jasil on Aug 20, '11


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