What can I do locally if I am against the mandatory flu vaccine?

pmabraham, BSN, RN · Feb 20, 2013

Good day:

Is the CDC Wrong to Endorse Tamiflu? - Nextgov.com is an interesting read.

Thank you.

ComeTogether, LPN · Feb 20, 2013

I still believe in personal choice regardless of what president Obama mandates me to do.
If I was a drug company giant and stood to make billions of dollars by pushing a vaccine or drug, I might just interfere in policy and advertising to increase my profit. If you have a patient who is struggling to recover after GBS and it doesn't bother you a bit, then I am at a loss for words. Does anybody know exactly what the flu vaccine contains? How confident are you in these drug trials where billions of dollars at at stake?

I actually do have a patient recovering from GBS.....

Did you know you can just as easily, if not more so, get GBS from the flu itself?

morte, LPN, LVN · Feb 21, 2013

did they look for anything but the flu during post mortem?? Do you think the women in Oz would have been considered anything but a flu death, if that ONE ID doc hadn't been curious enough to look for something else? heck no.

Each pt had no underlying problems, no asthma, nothing, all healthy kids...those parents who are suffering did not possibly THINK that they had to decide to take their children off life support because they were HEALTHY.
The flu can be deadly for anyone...don't think that you have to have an underlying "condition" and lull yourself into a false sense of security...those people or children in our communities end up in the ICU. A few yes, but it doesn't matter...it's REAL.

morte, LPN, LVN · Feb 21, 2013

and getting the shot, doesn't mean we can't share the virus. again, what about THIS infant, or its immediate surroundings caused/contributed to this out come.

5 week old, full term healthy not an issue in the world infant. At 6 weeks, intubated, and clinging to life.
You know what? If someone thinks their own immune system can fight the flu, that is awesome, however, think about those among us whose can't.
For myself, I was never one to get sick. Ever. Just didn't. Don't like meds, shots, or to be told I "HAD" to do a thing when it came to decisions about my body. And it hit me like a ton of bricks. Since I have had a shot each year, I (and I don't take any regular meds, and when I have had to in the past, I am not one to react well to most meds) have never gotten ill from the shot, and thankfully, have never had even a quarter of the illness that the flu was.
Peoples own choices are just that, people's own choices. But the life you save may not be your own, but someone who is too young to get a shot.

MunoRN, RN · Feb 22, 2013

and getting the shot, doesn't mean we can't share the virus. again, what about THIS infant, or its immediate surroundings caused/contributed to this out come.

It's true that you can still share the virus after getting vaccinated, you're just less likely to do so, which is a worthy goal.

morte, LPN, LVN · Feb 22, 2013

how less likely?

It's true that you can still share the virus after getting vaccinated, you're just less likely to do so, which is a worthy goal.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Feb 22, 2013

[h=1]Seasonal Influenza Vaccine Safety: A Summary for Clinicians[/h]

Temporally associated Guillain–Barré Syndrome (GBS) cases following influenza vaccination have been observed/reported; gastrointestinal and upper respiratory infections are known risk factors for GBS, which is a serious neurological condition that can cause paralysis.
Safety monitoring of seasonal influenza vaccines over the course of many years has not detected a clear link to Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS). However, if there is a risk of GBS from current flu vaccines, it would be no more than 1 or 2 cases per million people vaccinated.¹ This is much lower than the risk of severe influenza, which can be prevented by vaccination.
Each year, about 3,000 to 6,000 people in the United States develop GBS whether or not they received a vaccination — that’s 1 to 2 people out of every 100,000 people.
For comparison, an estimated 750 per million adults are hospitalized with seasonal influenza each year; many of these cases could be prevented by vaccination. In addition, studies suggest that the risk of developing GBS after having influenza is higher than the potential risk of developing GBS after vaccination.¹

Harvard Health Publications

Here are 10 common myths about the flu.

You can catch the flu from the vaccine.

The vaccine is made from an inactivated virus that can't transmit infection. So people who get sick after receiving a flu vaccination were going to get sick anyway. It takes a week or two to get protection from the vaccine. But people assume that because they got sick after getting the vaccine, the shot caused their illness.

[h=3]Viruses and Infectious Diseases: Protecting yourself from the invisible enemy[/h] Have you ever wondered whether you are truly protected from infectious diseases ranging from the common cold to more deadly threats like rabies or bird flu? This report describes the most up-to-date information on infectious disease and how to protect yourself from everything from stomach flu to HIV/AIDS. Read more »

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Feb 22, 2013

did they look for anything but the flu during post mortem?? Do you think the women in Oz would have been considered anything but a flu death if that ONE ID doc hadn't been curious enough to look for something else? heck no. [/quote']
ID does a full work up on children...children are notoriously little Petrie dishes...In all my years of Pediatric Nursing, most children I care for have been colonized with klebsiella, MDRO specimens such as MRSA and VRE and are healthy as a horse...So when you have a protocol in place, you run the screen, because there are a TON of organisms that can compromise when you are ill. Most if us are colonized with staph and strep already, and tons of other things...unless our immune system gets compromised, like if you experience shock, especially warm shock, it's more due to the body's response...and if you are really young, have virtually no immune system or an older adult, or even you can eat right, but the body's make up is still vulnerable-we can choose to believe that we are "healthy" until the body decides to do what our bodies do and, in turn, shows up on the lab work-THEN you have a problem.
There are a TON of viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoan that produce flu-like symptoms. This flu season, Norovirus is present, making for a lot of people hard to distinguish from the flu....if you have the corzya in the wings, then are affected with Norivirus, it may "feel" like the flu, but it's not...or forbpeople who have perennial allergies or sensitivity and get food poisoning (histamine releasing when samonella comes into the body) it just produces the same signs and symptoms.
I don't live in the land of Oz...heard about it and I don't care do much for that place. Don't get me wrong, sounds like a TON of fun for story-time, but I'm one who loves to stay on the side of logic and REALITY. I'm rogue in terms of corporate culture and apathetic conspiracy wielding as well; don't have an axe to grind with them, just don't let those things have a power over me in terms of livelihood or when making sense of things. I do what I have always done whether I take care of elderly, infants, and everything in between...make sure MY practice is about decreasing MORBIDITY and mortality on experience, and an open and investigative mind.
:)

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Feb 22, 2013

I actually do have a patient recovering from GBS.....
Did you know you can just as easily, if not more so, get GBS from the flu itself?

^

I've seen more cases of people having GBS as a result of the flu, not from the flu virus.

morte, LPN, LVN · Feb 22, 2013

OK, I will type it out completely: australia. and other virii, or bacteria is not what i was gettin at.. Which should have been obvious from my reference. Were these infants compromised genetically, that is what i want to know.

ID does a full work up on children...children are notoriously little Petrie dishes...In all my years of Pediatric Nursing, most children I care for have been colonized with klebsiella, MDRO specimens such as MRSA and VRE and are healthy as a horse...So when you have a protocol in place, you run the screen, because there are a TON of organisms that can compromise when you are ill. Most if us are colonized with staph and strep already, and tons of other things...unless our immune system gets compromised, like if you experience shock, especially warm shock, it's more due to the body's response...and if you are really young, have virtually no immune system or an older adult, or even you can eat right, but the body's make up is still vulnerable-we can choose to believe that we are "healthy" until the body decides to do what our bodies do and, in turn, shows up on the lab work-THEN you have a problem.
There are a TON of viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoan that produce flu-like symptoms. This flu season, Norovirus is present, making for a lot of people hard to distinguish from the flu....if you have the corzya in the wings, then are affected with Norivirus, it may "feel" like the flu, but it's not...or forbpeople who have perennial allergies or sensitivity and get food poisoning (histamine releasing when samonella comes into the body) it just produces the same signs and symptoms.
I don't live in the land of Oz...heard about it and I don't care do much for that place. Don't get me wrong, sounds like a TON of fun for story-time, but I'm one who loves to stay on the side of logic and REALITY. I'm rogue in terms of corporate culture and apathetic conspiracy wielding as well; don't have an axe to grind with them, just don't let those things have a power over me in terms of livelihood or when making sense of things. I do what I have always done whether I take care of elderly, infants, and everything in between...make sure MY practice is about decreasing MORBIDITY and mortality on experience, and an open and investigative mind.
:)

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Feb 22, 2013

OK I will type it out completely: australia. and other virii, or bacteria is not what i was gettin at.. Which should have been obvious from my reference. Were these infants compromised genetically, that is what i want to know.[/quote']
Thank you for the clarification. We are global, and I am not aware of the reference...Didn't know I had to be either...
No, these children were not compromised genetically. As I explained in my post, I have worked with children. Most of the children I worked with have been vent-dependent to having HPLHS, HUS, CP, as well as children having CF, mitochondrial disorder, neuroblastomas, any range of childhood genetic disorder I can think of. I found most of my children I cared for, the ones without a genetic disposition have not succumbed to the flu. If they succumbed, it was their pathology or a non-bacterial contributing factor.
We also have to understand that we all have a genetic disposition. Genetic testing is not widely available in the US for a 10 dollar co-pay in my neck of the woods, or covered in most insurances for people. That saying, the genetic disposition is the baseline, it cannot be a contributor to a flu-death, if anything, it can be said that it increased susceptibility, but then, that poses an even greater responsibility to have myself as their nurse to be vaccinated, not the other way around; meaning, "oh, they are going to be compromised anyway, so I'm not going to get the flu vaccine"- this thought process doesn't make sense to me.
I also work at a health system that due to their contribution to research in pediatric illnesses, their pathway does go into overdrive if they have no PMH...the need to testing genetics and ruling out other possibilities-knowing the WHY is as paramount, as tracing the illness...I can attest to the why and the acceptance of having the attitude "no stone being unturned" is accepted. This is the first place I worked where the "talk" is "action."
Nursing actively participates in examining and collaborating in the care of the patient. To be present and practicing a questioning attitude while trying to preserve a pt's mortality while they are in an ECMO machine, ACTUALLY happens. It is really about the patient, not about vaccines, who's ordering who around, etc...It may sound like the fictional Oz to some , however it is happening at the facility I work in, and have always practiced in this way prior to working at this facility.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Feb 24, 2013

^
I've seen more cases of people having GBS as a result of the flu, not from the flu virus.

GBS is a relatively rare disease. Unless you work at a "center of excellence" for GBS, it's difficult to believe that any single practitioner can deal with enough cases to infer statistical significance for one theory or the other.