Vaccination Discussion: Free-for-all.... Vaccination Discussion: Free-for-all.... | allnurses

Vaccination Discussion: Free-for-all....

  1. 4 I started this thread because I am discouraged about the hijacking of threads relating to H1N1 vaccination while we are in the middle of a pandemic. I am an ancillary member here at allnurses.com. I am not a HCW and have only about 100 posts here. And I certainly "don't have a dog in this fight". They are several threads where the discussion relating to pandemic vaccination has drifted or been purposively diverted. I started this thread so that people can vent about vaccinations in general, and H1N1 in particular.

    Below I present some self-obvious assumptions about vaccinations. Please be mindful of these assumptions when you respond.

    1. Everybody should be allowed to make their own choices about whether to receive vaccinations for themselves or their families or not as they choose.

    2. Employers are running businesses. They can dictate rules about vaccination as they like. If you don't like the rules, quit the job and find another.

    3. Vaccinations for various infectious diseases are known to reduce the morbidity and mortality from these diseases.

    4. The current production and distribution mechanism for the novel H1N1 vaccine is identical to the trivalent influenza vaccine that has been distributed worldwide with minimal health risks for years. Only the strain of the virus has been changed.

    5. Thimerasol is not present in all vaccines offer to the public.

    6. Not all vaccines contain an adjuvant.

    Let the discussions begin.
  2. 14 Comments

  3. Visit  indigo girl profile page
    4
    Al, you want to spoil their fun by having a rational discussion where they might have to prove what they are saying is true?

    It's much easier to give an opinion about the new vaccine but not let anyone know where the information came from that the opinion is based upon. It can get downright embarassing when the only links for some of these assertions come from sites like prisonplanet, mercola and the like...

    What were you thinking? These opinions are not usually founded on facts.
    Last edit by indigo girl on Oct 13, '09
    SuesquatchRN, lamazeteacher, tewdles, and 1 other like this.
  4. Visit  RuRnurse? profile page
    0
    There are plenty of people who have doubts about this vaccine, and vaccines in general. To imply that they are all ignorant or misinformed, or both, is an insult. But I don't think that will change...
    Some obviously feel very strongly about the issue, and I for one, respect that. I may not agree, but I respect the right to express the feelings. Those on both sides of the issue should do the same.
  5. Visit  Laidback Al profile page
    1
    Quote from RuRnurse?
    There are plenty of people who have doubts about this vaccine, and vaccines in general. To imply that they are all ignorant or misinformed, or both, is an insult. But I don't think that will change...
    Some obviously feel very strongly about the issue, and I for one, respect that. I may not agree, but I respect the right to express the feelings. Those on both sides of the issue should do the same.

    I am sorry if you think my initial post implied that any posters to this thread are ignorant or misinformed. I did not mean to imply that.

    I agree that people should be allowed to have strong feelings and act in their own perceived best interest. But if those very people also have direct or indirect effects on the lives of other individuals, then they be better be sure they have made the right moral choice. HCWs have a moral obligation not only to protect themselves and their families, but, at the same time, an obligation to protect their sick patients from an accidentally, and potentially fatal, transmitted infection whether it is MRSA, H1N1, or something else.
    Last edit by Laidback Al on Oct 13, '09
    HonestRN likes this.
  6. Visit  hypocaffeinemia profile page
    3
    Quote from RuRnurse?
    There are plenty of people who have doubts about this vaccine, and vaccines in general. To imply that they are all ignorant or misinformed, or both, is an insult.
    It's not an insult. It's the plain truth.

    If there were still plenty of people who had doubts about heliocentricism, labeling them ignorant and/or misinformed would be just as apt.
    CuriousMe, SuesquatchRN, and HonestRN like this.
  7. Visit  indigo girl profile page
    3
    Vaccination is a public health issue, and that is not just about individuals. It is about protecting all of us through herd immunity. What we do and say about this issue effects others.

    We are influencing others with what we are posting about vaccines, and should be prepared to give facts, and references. Being forthright with information, and providing credible sources in suport of we are saying is going to be far more useful to all of us than posting half truths and innuendo that leave us hanging and wondering where such beliefs came from. Our opinions are going to be influencing other people whether that is our intent or not. Hopefully, providing as much factual information as possible should be what we are trying to do.

    Some may well believe for example, that autism, and auto-immune diseases are caused by vaccines, and may want to express doubts about the need for vaccines. Being questioned about supporting evidence for these beliefs should not come as a surprise, however. Because we are influencing others whose health might well be adversely impacted by what we are saying, we should expect to be able to provide factual supporting evidence for what we are saying. If it is just an opinion you want to give, just say it's an opinion, and admit it for what it is. Having individual differences of opinion is to be expected.

    We are mostly professional nurses posting here. Hopefully we are providing up to date, and credible information in the interest of bettering the health of all of us.
    Last edit by indigo girl on Oct 14, '09
    SuesquatchRN, tewdles, and HonestRN like this.
  8. Visit  HonestRN profile page
    2
    I agree with Indigo Girl. Posting credible, factual information is essential considering this is a forum open to the general public and they depend on nurses and other health care workers to be knowledgeable about health issues and concerns. Especially right now.
    Last edit by tnbutterfly on Oct 14, '09
    SuesquatchRN and tewdles like this.
  9. Visit  tewdles profile page
    2
    I must admit that I often post based upon my opinion and without a url reference link. The biggest difference, I think, is that I am generally not posting in an emotional and inflammatory fashion. I frequently post that we need to be cautious in our approach and discussions with lay persons about this topic precisely because so many of my peers are apparently mis-informed, angry, and emotional. I am continually surprised by the number of learned health professionals who post comments which are based in psuedoscience and fear. I am worried about the number of lay persons who are therefore being misled by the opinions of those HCWs rather than being informed using facts.

    I am an advocate of choice when it comes to immunizations. I, both personally and professionally, believe that there is considerable evidence to support the practice of immunization against communicable disease. When speaking to patients and their families I give them the facts...what the CDC says, etc. If they ask my opinion related to whether or not I would get the vaccine I decline to answer. It is, afterall, their choice for them. At the end of the day if my patient decides to get the H1N1 vaccine and develops GBS, that was his choice...if he decides to forego the vaccine and is exposed to the virus and gets sick and/or develops GBS, that was also his choice. My job is simply to provide them with the info so that they may make an informed choice. If they ask me if, as an RN, I think they should get the vaccine I will refer them back to the facts and recommendations for the vaccine. We will review any risk factors they have. We will look at contraindications. We will call their MD if necessary. But it is their choice and their choice should not be biased by my personal opinions.
    I get lynched periodically for "assuming" that people are not being impartial in their information delivery. I don't have to assume...I encounter people on a daily basis who are making choices regarding this vaccine based upon the opinions of others rather than upon facts.
    SuesquatchRN and Purple_Scrubs like this.
  10. Visit  lamazeteacher profile page
    1
    Quote from RuRnurse?
    There are plenty of people who have doubts about this vaccine, and vaccines in general. To imply that they are all ignorant or misinformed, or both, is an insult. But I don't think that will change...
    Some obviously feel very strongly about the issue, and I for one, respect that. I may not agree, but I respect the right to express the feelings. Those on both sides of the issue should do the same.
    Expressing feelings is a lot different than making up falsehoods, which is what I see "Zena Bethune" and his/her ilk doing, in a misguided attempt to get attention and spread malaise about our credible sources of information. If propagators of the drivel in the highly questionnable and vindictive content of the "links" to which Zana directed us were believed, there wouldn't be anyone alive since vaccines have been here!

    It seems that the viewpoint of the poster of all this dreck, has had issues with "jabs" from way back. If only she's had EMLA patches applied to ease the pain of injections, she wouldn't have gone on the warpath over vaccines. Oh well, something else would have gotten the attention of anyone on a quest to disavow credible sources.
    SuesquatchRN likes this.
  11. Visit  Laidback Al profile page
    0
    Quote from tewdles
    . . But it is their choice and their choice should not be biased by my personal opinions.
    People in positions of authority or trust need to distinguish their personal opinions from the factual information they are presenting to their patients.

    Quote from tewdles
    . . . My job is simply to provide them with the info so that they may make an informed choice. . .
    Info that is based on established unbiased scientific studies, not hearsay and innuendo.
  12. Visit  lamazeteacher profile page
    0
    Quote from Laidback Al
    People in positions of authority or trust need to distinguish their personal opinions from the factual information they are presenting to their patients.

    Info that is based on established unbiased scientific studies, not hearsay and innuendo.

    Al, Prepared Parenthood needs you!
  13. Visit  HeartsOpenWide profile page
    0
    Quote from Laidback Al

    1. Everybody should be allowed to make their own choices about whether to receive vaccinations for themselves or their families or not as they choose.

    2. Employers are running businesses. They can dictate rules about vaccination as they like. If you don't like the rules, quit the job and find another.
    How can you say it is a person's choice then say that if they do not like the fact that their employers are MAKING THEM get a vaccination then they can quit...?

    I am getting the vaccination because I want it, I have faith in vaccinations; for the most part. I am a little skeptical with the N1H1 being that it is still new, but I learned enough in Micro years ago that I keep up on my vaccinations, even ones that are not required. What I do not find cool is that health care agencies are requiring us to get them while the public is not and is more likely to infect our patients when visiting than we do. We have good immune systems do to all the things we are exposed to and use standard and isolation precautions. How many times have you seen a visitor go into a isolation room without even gowning up or washing their hands? I bet you more times not.
  14. Visit  indigo girl profile page
    1
    Quote from HeartsOpenWide
    How can you say it is a person's choice then say that if they do not like the fact that their employers are MAKING THEM get a vaccination then they can quit...?

    I am getting the vaccination because I want it, I have faith in vaccinations; for the most part. I am a little skeptical with the N1H1 being that it is still new, but I learned enough in Micro years ago that I keep up on my vaccinations, even ones that are not required. What I do not find cool is that health care agencies are requiring us to get them while the public is not and is more likely to infect our patients when visiting than we do. We have good immune systems do to all the things we are exposed to and use standard and isolation precautions. How many times have you seen a visitor go into a isolation room without even gowning up or washing their hands? I bet you more times not.
    I don't think that any of us are happy that this vaccine is being mandated.

    As for the swine vaccine being new, the only thing new about it is the strain of virus. Each year the influenza experts look at whether or not they need to change the strains to protect us based on what is circulating months in advance of our flu season.

    The swine flu vaccine has been adequately tested.

    All of the testing for this vaccine was the same as for every year's STRAIN CHANGE. Limited Clinical trials on several hundred people are conducted to determine dose efficacy. EXCEPT . . . additional testing has/is being conducted this year on Pregnant women, Children with Asthma, and people with HIV which is above and beyond normal Flu vaccine testing.

    http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsro.../ucm182399.htm

    Quote from www.fda.gov
    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced today that it has approved four vaccines against the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus. The vaccines will be distributed nationally after the initial lots become available, which is expected within the next four weeks.

    ”The H1N1 vaccines approved today undergo the same rigorous FDA manufacturing oversight, product quality testing and lot release procedures that apply to seasonal influenza vaccines,” said Jesse Goodman, M.D., FDA acting chief scientist.

    We can expect that the pandemic virus will replace at least one of the seasonal strains of viruses. Therefore, it will be part of the seasonal influenza vaccine for the southern hemisphere during their regular flu season, and ours next fall as well.

    http://ecdc.europa.eu/en/activities/...llItems%2Easpx

    Right now the southern hemisphere as welll as the northern has to deal with this virus that is killing kids, pregnant women and young adults. Some of these people had no prior exisitng health problems but they are now dead from flu despite being infected in the summer here in the north. Obviously these are not normal times, and this is not a normal virus. This virus unlike seasonal flu has a propensity for infecting deep lung tissue. And, no one has any immunity to it.
    SuesquatchRN likes this.

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