Nurse: 'I was fired for refusing flu shot' - page 24

by DesertRN2 | 64,279 Views | 266 Comments

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  1. 2
    Quote from Esme12
    The hospital has no interest in you the employee.......they have no real interest in the patient.....for if they did the staffing would be better. They care about the costs of sick time.... and replacing a sick work force....so if all employees get vaccinated and it is effective on only 60% of them....think of the amount of sick time that 60% would have cost them if they actually called out sick.

    It's all about he bottom line. Making workers wear masks is just a modern version of a Scarlett Letter......drawing attention and punishing the non conformist. Not that they are right or wrong just that they don't "conform".

    It's not about the vaccine per say......it's about my right to choose. Every time a law is passed forcing me to conform.....I loose another right to choose my own destiny.

    That is a big deal for me.
    And yes, you hit the nail on the head. It's about choice.

    Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com
    Esme12 and Nolee_of_Araya like this.
  2. 0
    Do patients that have not had the flu shot have to wear a mask? Why not?
    What type of mask does the nurse wear when they treat an influenza patient?
    What precautions are taken when caring for a patient admitted for influenza?
  3. 0
    Do unvaccinated visitors have to wear a mask? After all, either it is a grave disease or it is not.
  4. 0
    Quote from imjustme123
    Do unvaccinated visitors have to wear a mask? After all, either it is a grave disease or it is not.

    No, but they don't have to have a TB test either. Or have a background check...or a drug test...etc etc.
  5. 2
    TB test, background check, drug test--what the heck?
    We are speaking about pandemic influenza.
    It seems that only HCW's are targeted for a popular "Lets prevent Influenza" campaign but the real knowledge in how to actually control a droplet spread disease is being ignored?
    I mean if this needs to be done --then doesn't it needs to be done appropriately?
    This must truly be a serious communicative disease that is out of control for all these hospitals to mandate vaccinations? So by doing less than we know than needs to be done, isn't that like malpractice?
    Isn't the first rule of medicine " First do no harm"? So if a situation has developed that is serious enough for federal agencies to mandate vaccinations, shouldn't it be serious enough to fully address droplet prevention for everyone within the hospital--including patients /visitors/vendors etc etc. If we dont--isnt that a violation of that first rule?
    We DONT know that visitors/patients/vendors etc have had the vaccination, we KNOW that those that haven't are a RISK to patients, so by not addressing that in the proper manner ( insuring hand washing, the wearing of masks by visitors, unvaccinated patients, vendors etc) then aren't we knowingly placing patients and others at risk?
    Kooky Korky and morte like this.
  6. 1
    There are more articles like this, but the reality is that higher flu vaccination rates among HCPs are associated with lower rates of nosocomial influenza. I also want to clarify from someone's prior post that this is not a federal mandate; it is per various hospitals' policies. Preventing nosocomial influenz... [Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI
    NRSKarenRN likes this.
  7. 1
    Not a federal mandate? But isnt it tied to reimbursement? Doesnt that make it a mandate of sorts? I can almost guarantee that if it is tied to reimbursement percentages then a hospital administration will mandate it. For example, look at the motivations surrounding the no smoking policy's and EHR implementations.

    Ok if evidence shows that there is less nosocomial infections as the percentages of hcws with vaccinations increase--where is it?
    The study you posted stated :
    "HCW vaccination rates increased from 4% in 1987-1988 to 67% in 1999-2000 (P < .0001). Proportions of nosocomially acquired influenza cases among employees or patients both declined significantly (P < .0001). Logistic regression analysis revealed a significant inverse association between HCW compliance with vaccination and the rate of nosocomial influenza among patients (P < .001)".

    Is that not comparing oranges to apples? Comparing years 1987-88 to years 1999-2000 is perhaps not the best comparison?
    The year now is 2012--12 years later. A lot of things change in 12 years including the median ages of patients which indirectly influences the percentages of influenza cases.

    Latest weekly CDC viral report seems to indicate that this years vaccination may be a good match? I realize it does remain to be seen.
    "
    CDC has antigenically characterized 249 influenza viruses [Ten 2009 H1N1 viruses, 155 influenza A (H3N2) viruses, and 84 influenza B viruses] collected by U.S. laboratories since October 1, 2012".

    As I understand it, if a person gets clinically diagnosed influenza then they can remain a carrier for 7 days POST the febrile stage? Does that mean the HCW ( yes you can get the flu even if you are vaccinated) would be required to remain at home for approx 7+days? Would that not be a requirement? This means it should classify as a workmans compensation type of absence and the HCW's sick time and pay should not be affected?

    This truly has the potential to become a Pandora's box for hospitals. Is the risk versus the benefit clearly understood?
    Last edit by Esme12 on Dec 12, '12 : Reason: Formatting
    morte likes this.
  8. 0
    Quote from olddragger
    TB test, background check, drug test--what the heck?
    Yes, different jobs have different requirements. The flu shot is a requirement for many nursing jobs...just like the TB test, background checks, drug screens, etc. It's nothing new.
  9. 0
    [QUOTE=olddragger;7065915]
    Not a federal mandate? But isnt it tied to reimbursement? Doesnt that make it a mandate of sorts? I can almost guarantee that if it is tied to reimbursement percentages then a hospital administration will mandate it. For example, look at the motivations surrounding the no smoking policy's and EHR implementations.

    Ok if evidence shows that there is less nosocomial infections as the percentages of hcws with vaccinations increase--where is it?
    The study you posted stated :
    "HCW vaccination rates increased from 4% in 1987-1988 to 67% in 1999-2000 (P < .0001). Proportions of nosocomially acquired influenza cases among employees or patients both declined significantly (P < .0001). Logistic regression analysis revealed a significant inverse association between HCW compliance with vaccination and the rate of nosocomial influenza among patients (P < .001)".

    Is that not comparing oranges to apples? Comparing years 1987-88 to years 1999-2000 is perhaps not the best comparison?
    The year now is 2012--12 years later. A lot of things change in 12 years including the median ages of patients which indirectly influences the percentages of influenza cases.

    Latest weekly CDC viral report seems to indicate that this years vaccination may be a good match? I realize it does remain to be seen.
    "
    CDC has antigenically characterized 249 influenza viruses [Ten 2009 H1N1 viruses, 155 influenza A (H3N2) viruses, and 84 influenza B viruses] collected by U.S. laboratories since October 1, 2012".

    As I understand it, if a person gets clinically diagnosed influenza then they can remain a carrier for 7 days POST the febrile stage? Does that mean the HCW ( yes you can get the flu even if you are vaccinated) would be required to remain at home for approx 7+days? Would that not be a requirement? This means it should classify as a workmans compensation type of absence and the HCW's sick time and pay should not be affected?

    This truly has the potential to become a Pandora's box for hospitals. Is the risk versus the benefit clearly understood?
    [QUOTE]

    It is against TOS to have > 1 account. FYI.
    Last edit by Esme12 on Dec 12, '12
  10. 1
    ntheboat2--I think my point was not understood? The flu vaccination falls into an unique category in comparison to the ones you mentioned. I feel that they should not be discussed in the same context. For example, if a hcw has a positive TB test--do they have to wear a mask? Whats happens if the ppd is positive? Background checks and UDS are not even related to the flu vaccination discussion.
    There are many mandatory requirements for employment. These are interesting points however.

    mariebaily--"Its agaisnt TOS to have greater than 1 account" I do not understand? If you mean that I have more than one account on this forum--then I was unaware and will do whatever a moderator requires.

    Everyone, I just what to be clear that I am not anti vaccine. I am, however strongly opposed to knee jerk policies that some hospital administrators place into affect. I feel that this mandatory "take the flu shot or loose your job" is a knee jerk reaction to federal quality requirements tied to full reimbursement that has not been well thought out. It is setting a dangerous precedent and overall I believe ultimately it will hurt credibility.
    .
    morte likes this.


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