Mandatory Flu Vaccines- How do you feel? - page 9

Anyone else upset by the requirement to take flu vaccine or else... not even a mask option??? Only way out is a MD note stating "severe" allergy. Why is it we can't force our patients but our... Read More

  1. Visit  Jory} profile page
    1
    Quote from wooh
    IIRC, redhead has a JD, so I'm betting she knows the difference.
    I think redhead was saying the same thing you just said, that anyone could file a suit for that, leading to annoyance and fun for the person sued, but unlikely to win.
    Alleged JD. I take everything with a grain of salt on the internet.

    I also asked her to post a case (of a lawsuit won because a family claimed the nurse gave the patient the flu that wasn't vaccinated)...so far, she hasn't posted one. Again, MY POINT, has been proven. If she has a JD, it clearly explains why she doesn't work in law because those jobs sort of require a basic understanding of the concepts.

    That is the first thing a corporate attorney is going to look at...has a case EVER been won on that basis? If the answer is no...trust me, they won't pay. Filed or not. This is called "case law".

    What amazes me is that she doesn't seem to know that just because a case is filed, a facility will only pay if they think they won't win or a chance, they will lose.

    I'm surprised a group of educated healthcare professionals that have posted to this recently cannot figure out that you cannot prove that a SINGLE unvaccinated nurse gave a patient the flu if the patient has visitors and even then. It's completely laughable.
    Last edit by Jory on Oct 11, '12
    JMBnurse likes this.
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  3. Visit  Jory} profile page
    1
    Quote from Asystole RN
    Your pejorative remarks only make you look foolish.

    Many (most?) lawsuits settle without actually going before a judge/trial. You can "win" without winning. The threat of an expensive and lengthy lawsuit is a strong incentive to settle.

    There is another thread about Philipino nurses suing a hospital over discrimination. The hospital settled for $1M.
    Hospitals will always pay if:

    1) The family is asking for a nominal amount of money...according to our corporate attorney, the most common request from filed lawsuits is for the family to simply, not pay their bill.

    2) The facility believes they have a CHANCE of losing.

    3) The facility believes they are SURE they will lose.

    4) The family has substantial resources to continue a case to make it more expensive than settling (key).

    They will not pay:

    1) Cases that are baseless...where the family cannot possibly prove their accusations because the proof does not exist.

    2) Well-documented cases where the ducks line up like soldiers.

    Discrimination is a different animal. Anytime you involve someone in a protected class, I can tell you now there is ALWAYS chance a facility will lose.

    Back around to the original point, if a patient receives visitors, plus being attended to by nurses and other staff workers, and one nurse wasn't vaccinated against the flu, if the patient gets sick, you cannot prove that the patient got the flu from the non-vaccinated nurse and NO OTHER POSSIBLE SOURCE. One almost cannot even list all the variables of how the infection could occur.
    JMBnurse likes this.
  4. Visit  redhead_NURSE98!} profile page
    0
    Quote from Jory
    Alleged JD. I take everything with a grain of salt on the internet.

    I also asked her to post a case (of a lawsuit won because a family claimed the nurse gave the patient the flu that wasn't vaccinated)...so far, she hasn't posted one. Again, MY POINT, has been proven. If she has a JD, it clearly explains why she doesn't work in law because those jobs sort of require a basic understanding of the concepts.
    Actually you didn't ask me to do that, but it doesn't surprise me that you have no idea who you are replying to half the time.

    Quote from Jory

    That is the first thing a corporate attorney is going to look at...has a case EVER been won on that basis? If the answer is no...trust me, they won't pay. Filed or not. This is called "case law".
    It IS? Thanks for the education!

    Quote from Jory

    What amazes me is that she doesn't seem to know that just because a case is filed, a facility will only pay if they think they won't win or a chance, they will lose.
    What amazes me is that you don't seem to know that there is ALWAYS a chance they will lose, and just how often they pay something even when there is a very small chance they will lose. What also amazes me is that you don't seem to understand the staggering costs of litigating any suit, no matter how small, and seem to have no concept of how that weighs into the chances that a med mal attorney will take a crappy case.

    Quote from Jory
    I'm surprised a group of educated healthcare professionals that have posted to this recently cannot figure out that you cannot prove that a SINGLE unvaccinated nurse gave a patient the flu if the patient has visitors and even then. It's completely laughable.
    It's completely laughable that you don't realize that NO ONE EVER SAID THAT.

    I think this whole subject might just be over your head. Sorry we are embarrassing you.
  5. Visit  Laidback Al} profile page
    3
    Lets get back on topic ---

    The other day I was in a health care facility. I saw three big burly guys in uniforms chase down and tackle a petite young nurse. She struggled to get away, but two of them held her down while the third reached into his pocket and pulled out a vial and syringe. He quickly and deftly administered a mandatory flu vaccination. They let her up and she was free to resume her nursely duties.

    Did this really happen? No, of course not. But by the content of some of the posts in this thread you would think it was an everyday occurrence.

    No HCW is "forced" to take a flu shot in our society. You are only "forced" to make a decision about whether or not you will comply with your employer's flu shot requirements or risk losing your job.

    If there is anyone reading this thread who was tackled and vaccinated against their will, please let us know. In fact, read several of the posts above about legal issues--you may have a winnable lawsuit on your hands.
    chare, brillohead, and redhead_NURSE98! like this.
  6. Visit  harleyusa} profile page
    3
    my facilty implemented "mandatory flu shots" this year. in their policy it dictated if you failed to get the flu shot within the designated time (available over a two week period) you would be given 5 days off without pay. if after that time you had not got the flu shot your employment would be terminated.
    i am almost 53 years old have worked as a nurse for over 30 years in various settings (currently in cardiology) i have NEVER HAD THE FLU NOR THE FLU SHOT. i have worked at the same facility for 9 years. never been off sick with flu or colds. never been off sick during any winter time.
    i recieved the flu shot on monday 10/7 under duress. very angry that i was forced to take this **** into my body. today 10/11 i type this letter having had a visit to occ health and MD as my vaccinated arm is blown up hard, red and painful, my lymph nodes are all swollen and painful and i feel like crap. apparently though unless the reaction was respiratory distress or worse like dead!!! they dont care.
    i know my body, i know my immune system which is why i would never upset the equilibrium i have achieved over many years. until now...when i have been forced against my will to take a substance into my body. I am not alone in disagreement of this stallinist policy, many fellow hospital employees also feel their rights as individuals have been breached. this policy is under the guise of a "condition of employment" SUDDENLY. does this therefore give them the right to overturn employees rights??? this is a worrying trend of power. what will be mandated in coming years???
    Last but not least. in reality if employees make a stand...we will lose our jobs anyway for standing up for our rights to choose.
    your thoughts???????????????
    dcookRN, Nurserton, and barbyann like this.
  7. Visit  imjustme123} profile page
    0
    Quote from Laidback Al
    Lets get back on topic ---

    The other day I was in a health care facility. I saw three big burly guys in uniforms chase down and tackle a petite young nurse. She struggled to get away, but two of them held her down while the third reached into his pocket and pulled out a vial and syringe. He quickly and deftly administered a mandatory flu vaccination. They let her up and she was free to resume her nursely duties.

    Did this really happen? No, of course not. But by the content of some of the posts in this thread you would think it was an everyday occurrence.

    No HCW is "forced" to take a flu shot in our society. You are only "forced" to make a decision about whether or not you will comply with your employer's flu shot requirements or risk losing your job.

    If there is anyone reading this thread who was tackled and vaccinated against their will, please let us know. In fact, read several of the posts above about legal issues--you may have a winnable lawsuit on your hands.
    No, you'll just end up homeless and in the bread line.
  8. Visit  Soliloquy} profile page
    1
    I hate the new mandate. Sometimes I feel like many of these studies are held off on because of the belief that the benefits outweigh the risk and they don't want to stir up waves when this is the only thing they have at this time. But if they're making it mandatory now for all of us to get it, maybe enough people will get sick from it and some will develop "Guillian-Barre Syndrome" and then they'll decide to do the studies and realize that this really ought to be more of an optional thing again. It just bothers me how they keep changing the ages and mandates like that.
    Nurserton likes this.
  9. Visit  Anna Flaxis} profile page
    2
    Quote from Laidback Al
    No HCW is "forced" to take a flu shot in our society. You are only "forced" to make a decision about whether or not you will comply with your employer's flu shot requirements or risk losing your job.

    If there is anyone reading this thread who was tackled and vaccinated against their will, please let us know. In fact, read several of the posts above about legal issues--you may have a winnable lawsuit on your hands.
    Ah, but you're contradicting yourself. You first define "force" as physical compulsion to argue that nobody is being forced to be vaccinated, then in the next breath state that HCWs are being forced to make a decision; unless you mean that the employer is holding a gun to someone's head or holding them down until they make a decision, then you are in conflict with your own argument.

    "Force" is not so narrowly defined so as to include only physical compulsion. The definition of "force" also includes the power to control or influence others. Employers certainly do have that power, and punitive policies intended to influence employees to comply with vaccination are indeed a form of force.
    wooh and Snowbird17 like this.
  10. Visit  redhead_NURSE98!} profile page
    1
    Quote from harleyusa
    my facilty implemented "mandatory flu shots" this year. in their policy it dictated if you failed to get the flu shot within the designated time (available over a two week period) you would be given 5 days off without pay. if after that time you had not got the flu shot your employment would be terminated.
    i am almost 53 years old have worked as a nurse for over 30 years in various settings (currently in cardiology) i have NEVER HAD THE FLU NOR THE FLU SHOT. i have worked at the same facility for 9 years. never been off sick with flu or colds. never been off sick during any winter time.
    i recieved the flu shot on monday 10/7 under duress. very angry that i was forced to take this **** into my body. today 10/11 i type this letter having had a visit to occ health and MD as my vaccinated arm is blown up hard, red and painful, my lymph nodes are all swollen and painful and i feel like crap. apparently though unless the reaction was respiratory distress or worse like dead!!! they dont care.
    i know my body, i know my immune system which is why i would never upset the equilibrium i have achieved over many years. until now...when i have been forced against my will to take a substance into my body. I am not alone in disagreement of this stallinist policy, many fellow hospital employees also feel their rights as individuals have been breached. this policy is under the guise of a "condition of employment" SUDDENLY. does this therefore give them the right to overturn employees rights??? this is a worrying trend of power. what will be mandated in coming years???
    Last but not least. in reality if employees make a stand...we will lose our jobs anyway for standing up for our rights to choose.
    your thoughts???????????????
    I'm sorry you had such a bad time with it, and I'd encourage you to file a workers' comp claim if you suffer any monetary loss or have to take time off for getting sick with it. They should pay the price if their silly policies hurt their employees. I don't see why they can't just do the "vaccine or mask" stuff that a reasonable health care facility would do. I never had the flu shot until I went to nursing school at 33 (and hadn't had the flu (I don't think) since I was about 12!), and since then haven't had any health problems taking it, but that doesn't mean I never will, and it does annoy me to be told that I have to take it or wear a mask at work for 4 months. However, I have to believe that there is some very large benefit to making sure that a majority of people out there are vaccinated.
    SweettartRN likes this.
  11. Visit  wooh} profile page
    4
    Quote from redhead_NURSE98!
    I'm sorry you had such a bad time with it, and I'd encourage you to file a workers' comp claim if you suffer any monetary loss or have to take time off for getting sick with it. They should pay the price if their silly policies hurt their employees.
    Yeah, last year it was amazing how quick they changed their tune about not believing my egg allergy when I basically dared them to give it to me. Said fine, give it, and if I have a reaction it will be workers comp for me and a report to the BON about the nurse that showed the poor judgment to ignore my allergy. Strangely enough, none of the employee health nurses were sure enough about the "safe even with an egg allergy" when instead of just my airway on the line it was their license on the line.
  12. Visit  Nurserton} profile page
    0
    I think it's ridiculous to be forced to take anything into my body. When you enter a healthcare facility, infection is listed as a potential risk to every single thing that you consent to in that hospital. It's part of dealing with people. People have bugs. We do everything we can to minimize risk of infection, but forcing someone to take a controversial substance into their body is crossing the line. At my facility, the only way out is to get a medical doctor to write a note saying it's "contraindicated."...I learned that because of HIPAA, they can't inquire further into the reasoning behind the contraindication and have to back off. Luckily, I just got a job that's not at the bedside so I don't have to deal with this intrusive, dictatorial mandate.
    By the way, I have seen more patients hospitalized with Guillian Barre as their primary admission diagnosis than the flu as their primary admission diagnosis.
  13. Visit  MN-Nurse} profile page
    0
    Quote from Snowbird17
    No proof linking, but no study not linking.
    There is no proof linking, or no study not linking, your participation on allnurses to your son's egg allergy.
  14. Visit  Snowbird17} profile page
    0
    Quote from MN-Nurse
    There is no proof linking, or no study not linking, your participation on allnurses to your son's egg allergy.
    What?

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