Mandatory Flu Vaccines- How do you feel? - page 13

Anyone else upset by the requirement to take flu vaccine or else... not even a mask option??? Only way out is a MD note stating "severe" allergy. Why is it we can't force our patients but our... Read More

  1. Visit  mariebailey profile page
    1
    To an extent, I understand those who hold differing views from my own. You all make valid arguments; I just hold an opposing view. I am curious though; can those of you who oppose mandatory flu vaccination policies share how you've handled other employer requests, like:
    1. Hepatitis B, Varicella, Tdap, & MMR series &/or titers
    2. TST/PPD or IGRA testing for TB
    If you feel these are very different, can you explain how? Thanks.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
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  3. Visit  Snowbird17 profile page
    1
    I had chicken pox, a positive ppd (means i can't ever have one again), MMR series was completed when I was a child. TDAP is not mandated (I am current anyway by choice), I actually had positive titers to Hep B initially, but later a negative set. So I took a fourth Hep B vaccine. Don't think you have immunity just because you took three vaccines...can we say false sense of security.

    I am not against vaccination, and I do believe you can opt out of all of these at my facility......meaning, it is your choice to protect yourself or not.

    FYI. I posted the original discussion. I ended up taking the vaccine, haven't thought about it since.

    In regards to everything you listed, I fully support the use of vaccinations... I think prevention is key. But no one should be able to mandate it for condition of employment or else. If it is to be required, then an alternative should be offered. I really feel strongly that the government should stay out of it.

    It's a slippery slop. Obviously people have strong opinions about it and for the time being, we all should just agree to disagree My personal opinion is that it will lead to other requirements, that will eventually ruffle some of the feathers of those who support it.
    wooh likes this.
  4. Visit  olddragger profile page
    2
    this is a very good thread with some excellent points being made.
    I am not against vaccinations. They have their purpose like all medications.
    As a RN for the past 35 years I have always advocated to my family, friends and patients to always think of the risk versus benefit when dealing with medications and to educate themselves as much as possible concerning health matters.
    Everyone reacts to medications in their own particular way. I know that as a nurse you have seen some patients take benadryl and be almost consciously sedated while to others it seemed to have had no affect. Also studies have shown that even the time of day some medications are given can have a profound affect on the result. How many times have we looked at the PDR for information on a medication and under "Mechanism of Action" it lists "Unknown". What all this means to me is you have to be very careful concerning all medications including vaccines.
    To mandate FOR ALL HOSPITAL EMPLOYEES (etc) an ineffective vaccine manufactured by liability free companies is just wrong. Plain and simple.
    My personnel situation is this. After working for a hospital for 35 yrs I am now resigning over this. I cannot take the vaccine, I have a history of "serum sickness" from vaccines that is well documented and excepted. I am 63 yrs old which eliminates me for the nasal spray.
    My particular hospital will require that I wear a face mask during every minute of my work day for the next 4 months if I do not receive the flu vaccination. I am not in direct patient care. I do utilization management instruction, quality development type work and i never have to go into a patients room. I refused to be "marked" by a face mask. I also realize that while a face mask may offer some protection, it is much more important to do proper handwashing, cough/sneeze control and to stay at home if you do not feel well.
    I also agree with the last post that this mandate can lead to other mandates.
    Anna Flaxis and lml33 like this.
  5. Visit  dcookRN profile page
    0
    I have received the majority of vaccinations available. Many were given to me as a child before I knew much about the subject. The number of vaccines given to children is astonishing, and it is many more than were given when I was growing up in the eighties. Many chronic illnesses, auto-immune disorders, food allergies etc are becoming exponentially more common. The reality is, we do not really know why this is happening. But we do know drugs, including vaccines, are often fast tracked and given to the public before the consequences are fully understood. Do we really need to vaccinate for every disease or disorder can come up with a vaccine for? Should vaccines for rotovirus (which causes diarrhea) or HPV be mandated and treated like vaccines for polio, measles or pertussis? I don't think so, but this has been and continues to be done. All the while, drug companies insist they are safe in any quantity, and any harm that results is handled privately in "vaccine court", and settlements usually require gag orders, and their is no liability for the drug companies who make more money for every vaccine that is mandated. No liability, guaranteed profits, seems like a great business model. Where do we draw the line? Hundreds of vaccines are being developed for everything from obesity to drug addiction, and the drug companies seem to want us to have all of the mandated and given in childhood. More people get sick and die because of obesity, poor diet etc, but little is done to address this. In my opinion, the flu does not warrant annual mandated vaccination. Think about it, being injected with a vaccine and all the aluminum, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, and whatever else it contains every year, now based on the "required" schedule, from 6 months old on. For most people, the flu is a minor illness, and while unpleasant results in just a few days in bed. It has been so blown out of proportion over the last few years. When I consider the risk if the flu, and the risks/benefits of the vaccine, to me it is not worth getting and the right to use my own judgement to make this decision is extremely important to me. I do not want drug companies, the government or anyone else deciding what drugs I should take or give my kids. I have had other vaccines, which were claimed to bring life-long benefits with one dose. To me this is very different that getting injected with something year after year after year for the rest of my life.
  6. Visit  wooh profile page
    1
    Quote from dcookRN
    I have had other vaccines, which were claimed to bring life-long benefits with one dose. To me this is very different that getting injected with something year after year after year for the rest of my life.
    This is what bothers me about the flu vax. The risk vs. benefit ratio is one thing when comparing a vaccine to lifelong immunity. It totally changes when you compare risk to benefits of questionable year-long immunity.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
  7. Visit  imjustme123 profile page
    1
    Quote from dcookRN
    I have received the majority of vaccinations available. Many were given to me as a child before I knew much about the subject. The number of vaccines given to children is astonishing, and it is many more than were given when I was growing up in the eighties. Many chronic illnesses, auto-immune disorders, food allergies etc are becoming exponentially more common. The reality is, we do not really know why this is happening. But we do know drugs, including vaccines, are often fast tracked and given to the public before the consequences are fully understood. Do we really need to vaccinate for every disease or disorder can come up with a vaccine for? Should vaccines for rotovirus (which causes diarrhea) or HPV be mandated and treated like vaccines for polio, measles or pertussis? I don't think so, but this has been and continues to be done. All the while, drug companies insist they are safe in any quantity, and any harm that results is handled privately in "vaccine court", and settlements usually require gag orders, and their is no liability for the drug companies who make more money for every vaccine that is mandated. No liability, guaranteed profits, seems like a great business model. Where do we draw the line? Hundreds of vaccines are being developed for everything from obesity to drug addiction, and the drug companies seem to want us to have all of the mandated and given in childhood. More people get sick and die because of obesity, poor diet etc, but little is done to address this. In my opinion, the flu does not warrant annual mandated vaccination. Think about it, being injected with a vaccine and all the aluminum, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, and whatever else it contains every year, now based on the "required" schedule, from 6 months old on. For most people, the flu is a minor illness, and while unpleasant results in just a few days in bed. It has been so blown out of proportion over the last few years. When I consider the risk if the flu, and the risks/benefits of the vaccine, to me it is not worth getting and the right to use my own judgement to make this decision is extremely important to me. I do not want drug companies, the government or anyone else deciding what drugs I should take or give my kids. I have had other vaccines, which were claimed to bring life-long benefits with one dose. To me this is very different that getting injected with something year after year after year for the rest of my life.
    This is a great response, dcookRN, and rather than write my own, I will just say that this pretty much describes me and my own opinions as well. Flu is a relatively mild disease compared to polio, tetanus, etc. and the risks of getting a yearly vaccine outweigh the benefits for sure in my opinion. The truth is we DON'T know what is causing all the auto-immunity etc. but are supposed to just line up and now we are supposed to line up OR ELSE! It is bordering on criminal, if it is not criminal to force vaccinations that the risks are not even known and many times not even studied.
    lml33 likes this.
  8. Visit  dcookRN profile page
    2
    Its an interesting subject, that's for sure. And so many people believe that its a clear cut issue, ie vaccines are safe, period. And while much is implied in this area, I imagine its quite challenging to find any MD, scientist, or entity with any accountability that will guarantee anything, as the reality is there are no guarantees. An important aspect of good science is ever-expanding knowledge driven by eternal questions, seeking the truth, proving and reproving. There are fewer "facts" in medicine than many realize. We cannot know what a substance does over a long period of time when a long period of time has not even elapsed. Then, there is the question of what substance A does in the presence of substance B, or in the absence of proper mitochondrial function, and so on. We know that chemicals behave differently in the presence of other chemicals, but often they are studied individually, in small populations, over weeks. There have also been cases of safety studies being done without the presence of adjuvants in the trials, which were added to the products after approval. There are too many variables to consider to just accept short-term safety trials as proving safety, or justifying the implications. Not dropping dead within two weeks of receiving a drug leaves many questions to be answered. Its not easy to find excellent nurses, and our society needs excellent nurses in a serious way. It is unfortunate to lose nurses that would do so much good over their careers simply because they want to decline a substance, whatever their reasons for doing so. Talking about this seems to stir much emotion on both sides, driven by fear of one thing or another. In reality, often we do not fit neatly into one category or another. Questioning something should not lead to being categorized as anti anything.
    lml33 and morte like this.
  9. Visit  BeentheredonethatRN profile page
    0
    Ok, here is the thing - when I was in the military I signed my life over to Uncle Sam ,and whatever comes with it. Nurses are to protect the "Pt's Bill of Rights " ,and end the end, to be pressured to have a flu vaccine . Today pressured for flu vaccine ,and who knows what is to come tomorrow.
  10. Visit  lml33 profile page
    0
    I have been a nurse since 1998. I became a CRNA in 2006. Recently, I have lost a job due to refusal of the flu vaccine. My mother was vaccinated in December 2010. She became terribly exhausted. This lasted for months. Some days were better than others at dealing with extreme fatigue (so much that brushing her teeth required her to sleep for a few hours after). Subsequently, she died from a small bowel obstruction in March 2011. I miss her terribly.I have done extensive research on the influenza vaccine. It is NOT for everyone. Studies from the UK have shown there is a genetic link. The serotonin receptors can be affected by the vaccine, based on the recipient's DNA. I am extremely healthy and very rarely get sick. I run every day and I am a vegan. I use universal precautions. The flu vaccine works only 30% of the time. The CDC has admitted that they are further investigating these adverse reactions. In the meantime, they are still mandatory. They do not care about those few who could become terribly ill or die from the vaccine. Stand your ground. Your health is more important than anything. If something happens to you and you are unable to work, you have no recourse. If it means finding another profession, I would.Good Luck! Stay strong!
  11. Visit  lml33 profile page
    0
    Also, informed consent and full disclosure goes out the window! We are not fully informed. That is why medicine is science. It is a "practice". We need to stand up for what our conscience and education tells us is appropriate for the individual. We do care about our patients. We are fully educated individuals who can look outside the box. Keep up the networking and independent research.
  12. Visit  emmasuern profile page
    0
    I find it really interesting that everyone believes it is safe in pregnancy. This is the insert for the flu vaccine that GlaxoSmithKline produces. The first page states that safety and efficacy has not been established in pregnant women or mothers. There is a number to call to register pregnant women that are vaccinated. Part of the problem is that GSK doesn't enroll pregnant women or nursing mothers in their clinical trials. It can be hard to find an IRB that will approve the use of special populations. I was fairly appalled when I looked at the trial data. They conducted four trials. The first one had 80% white patients. Sanofi Pasteur conducted a trial with 91% white patients. The third trial had 99.9% white patients. The last trial was for children older than 6 months to 18 years of age and had a decent composite of racial groups. 68% white, 18% black, 3% asian, and 11% other. At least they tried to have a representative sample. The composite in the first three studies is astonishing. How did they run the trial and not question their recruitment? I think the companies could do a much better job with their studies and provide much better data on the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. It may give the public better peace of mind about the vaccine.

    http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_fluarix.pdf
  13. Visit  dcookRN profile page
    0
    The studies outlined in the vaccine package inserts and other published sources do seem to be quite lacking. To me it seems the real safety trial is done after the vaccines are released to the public, of course true with all drugs to differing degrees. Especially if the government, schools, places of employment etc want to mandate a drug, and as mentioned by others who posted the manufacturers are free of liability and make significant profits from these mandated drugs, the safety studies should be top notch (in an ideal world they always would be).
  14. Visit  dcookRN profile page
    0
    They don't stop at flu vaccines either of course. The one that bothered me the most I think was the attempt in Texas to mandate the HPV vaccine to school age kids as young as 12. In this particular case, Rick Perry(governor at the time) tried push the mandate the vaccine with his super pact coordinator (Toomey) that had received over a half million dollars from Merck for promoting Gardasil. All for a vaccine that has been shown to have very serious health risks, and only offers possible protection from very few strains of HPV, spread by sexual contact and the associated cancer risks.


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