Mandatory Flu Vaccines- How do you feel?

harleyusa · Oct 12, 2012

my facilty implemented "mandatory flu shots" this year. in their policy it dictated if you failed to get the flu shot within the designated time (available over a two week period) you would be given 5 days off without pay. if after that time you had not got the flu shot your employment would be terminated.

i am almost 53 years old have worked as a nurse for over 30 years in various settings (currently in cardiology) i have NEVER HAD THE FLU NOR THE FLU SHOT. i have worked at the same facility for 9 years. never been off sick with flu or colds. never been off sick during any winter time.

i recieved the flu shot on monday 10/7 under duress. very angry that i was forced to take this **** into my body. today 10/11 i type this letter having had a visit to occ health and MD as my vaccinated arm is blown up hard, red and painful, my lymph nodes are all swollen and painful and i feel like crap. apparently though unless the reaction was respiratory distress or worse like dead!!! they dont care.

i know my body, i know my immune system which is why i would never upset the equilibrium i have achieved over many years. until now...when i have been forced against my will to take a substance into my body. I am not alone in disagreement of this stallinist policy, many fellow hospital employees also feel their rights as individuals have been breached. this policy is under the guise of a "condition of employment" SUDDENLY. does this therefore give them the right to overturn employees rights??? this is a worrying trend of power. what will be mandated in coming years???

Last but not least. in reality if employees make a stand...we will lose our jobs anyway for standing up for our rights to choose.

your thoughts???????????????

imjustme123 · Oct 12, 2012

Lets get back on topic ---
The other day I was in a health care facility. I saw three big burly guys in uniforms chase down and tackle a petite young nurse. She struggled to get away, but two of them held her down while the third reached into his pocket and pulled out a vial and syringe. He quickly and deftly administered a mandatory flu vaccination. They let her up and she was free to resume her nursely duties.
Did this really happen? No, of course not. But by the content of some of the posts in this thread you would think it was an everyday occurrence.
No HCW is "forced" to take a flu shot in our society. You are only "forced" to make a decision about whether or not you will comply with your employer's flu shot requirements or risk losing your job.
If there is anyone reading this thread who was tackled and vaccinated against their will, please let us know. In fact, read several of the posts above about legal issues--you may have a winnable lawsuit on your hands.

No, you'll just end up homeless and in the bread line.

Soliloquy, MSN, APRN, NP · Oct 12, 2012

I hate the new mandate. Sometimes I feel like many of these studies are held off on because of the belief that the benefits outweigh the risk and they don't want to stir up waves when this is the only thing they have at this time. But if they're making it mandatory now for all of us to get it, maybe enough people will get sick from it and some will develop "Guillian-Barre Syndrome" and then they'll decide to do the studies and realize that this really ought to be more of an optional thing again. It just bothers me how they keep changing the ages and mandates like that.

Anna Flaxis, BSN, RN · Oct 12, 2012

No HCW is "forced" to take a flu shot in our society. You are only "forced" to make a decision about whether or not you will comply with your employer's flu shot requirements or risk losing your job.
If there is anyone reading this thread who was tackled and vaccinated against their will, please let us know. In fact, read several of the posts above about legal issues--you may have a winnable lawsuit on your hands.

Ah, but you're contradicting yourself. You first define "force" as physical compulsion to argue that nobody is being forced to be vaccinated, then in the next breath state that HCWs are being forced to make a decision; unless you mean that the employer is holding a gun to someone's head or holding them down until they make a decision, then you are in conflict with your own argument.

"Force" is not so narrowly defined so as to include only physical compulsion. The definition of "force" also includes the power to control or influence others. Employers certainly do have that power, and punitive policies intended to influence employees to comply with vaccination are indeed a form of force.

redhead_NURSE98!, ADN, BSN · Oct 12, 2012

my facilty implemented "mandatory flu shots" this year. in their policy it dictated if you failed to get the flu shot within the designated time (available over a two week period) you would be given 5 days off without pay. if after that time you had not got the flu shot your employment would be terminated.
i am almost 53 years old have worked as a nurse for over 30 years in various settings (currently in cardiology) i have NEVER HAD THE FLU NOR THE FLU SHOT. i have worked at the same facility for 9 years. never been off sick with flu or colds. never been off sick during any winter time.
i recieved the flu shot on monday 10/7 under duress. very angry that i was forced to take this **** into my body. today 10/11 i type this letter having had a visit to occ health and MD as my vaccinated arm is blown up hard, red and painful, my lymph nodes are all swollen and painful and i feel like crap. apparently though unless the reaction was respiratory distress or worse like dead!!! they dont care.
i know my body, i know my immune system which is why i would never upset the equilibrium i have achieved over many years. until now...when i have been forced against my will to take a substance into my body. I am not alone in disagreement of this stallinist policy, many fellow hospital employees also feel their rights as individuals have been breached. this policy is under the guise of a "condition of employment" SUDDENLY. does this therefore give them the right to overturn employees rights??? this is a worrying trend of power. what will be mandated in coming years???
Last but not least. in reality if employees make a stand...we will lose our jobs anyway for standing up for our rights to choose.
your thoughts???????????????

I'm sorry you had such a bad time with it, and I'd encourage you to file a workers' comp claim if you suffer any monetary loss or have to take time off for getting sick with it. They should pay the price if their silly policies hurt their employees. I don't see why they can't just do the "vaccine or mask" stuff that a reasonable health care facility would do. I never had the flu shot until I went to nursing school at 33 (and hadn't had the flu (I don't think) since I was about 12!), and since then haven't had any health problems taking it, but that doesn't mean I never will, and it does annoy me to be told that I have to take it or wear a mask at work for 4 months. However, I have to believe that there is some very large benefit to making sure that a majority of people out there are vaccinated.

wooh, BSN, RN · Oct 13, 2012

I'm sorry you had such a bad time with it, and I'd encourage you to file a workers' comp claim if you suffer any monetary loss or have to take time off for getting sick with it. They should pay the price if their silly policies hurt their employees.

Yeah, last year it was amazing how quick they changed their tune about not believing my egg allergy when I basically dared them to give it to me. Said fine, give it, and if I have a reaction it will be workers comp for me and a report to the BON about the nurse that showed the poor judgment to ignore my allergy. Strangely enough, none of the employee health nurses were sure enough about the "safe even with an egg allergy" when instead of just my airway on the line it was their license on the line.

Nurserton · Oct 13, 2012

I think it's ridiculous to be forced to take anything into my body. When you enter a healthcare facility, infection is listed as a potential risk to every single thing that you consent to in that hospital. It's part of dealing with people. People have bugs. We do everything we can to minimize risk of infection, but forcing someone to take a controversial substance into their body is crossing the line. At my facility, the only way out is to get a medical doctor to write a note saying it's "contraindicated."...I learned that because of HIPAA, they can't inquire further into the reasoning behind the contraindication and have to back off. Luckily, I just got a job that's not at the bedside so I don't have to deal with this intrusive, dictatorial mandate.

By the way, I have seen more patients hospitalized with Guillian Barre as their primary admission diagnosis than the flu as their primary admission diagnosis.

MN-Nurse, ASN, RN · Oct 14, 2012

No proof linking, but no study not linking.

There is no proof linking, or no study not linking, your participation on allnurses to your son's egg allergy.

Snowbird17 · Oct 14, 2012

There is no proof linking, or no study not linking, your participation on allnurses to your son's egg allergy.

What?

Asystole RN · Oct 14, 2012

I think it's ridiculous to be forced to take anything into my body. When you enter a healthcare facility, infection is listed as a potential risk to every single thing that you consent to in that hospital. It's part of dealing with people. People have bugs. We do everything we can to minimize risk of infection, but forcing someone to take a controversial substance into their body is crossing the line. At my facility, the only way out is to get a medical doctor to write a note saying it's "contraindicated."...I learned that because of HIPAA, they can't inquire further into the reasoning behind the contraindication and have to back off. Luckily, I just got a job that's not at the bedside so I don't have to deal with this intrusive, dictatorial mandate.
By the way, I have seen more patients hospitalized with Guillian Barre as their primary admission diagnosis than the flu as their primary admission diagnosis.

But take the flu vaccine :roflmao:

Nurserton · Oct 14, 2012

But take the flu vaccine

Last time I checked "hand-washing" was still being touted as the #1 means of infection prevention, not letting the health care system shoot you up with their latest cocktail of designer flu strains. Like many others, I've never even had the flu. I do not wish to participate in a system that mandates vaccination. I don't trust it. They rush these vaccines on the market, change the strains every year and every couple years there's an "oops there was live virus in that" scare. The preserving additives used (i.e., thimerosal) are made from known toxic agents. But it's just a tiny dose, so hey, I'm sure we'll be fine. Because we all know how much the FDA really cares about US, and not money in their pockets. The relentless campaigning of flu vaccines in the past decade, even to the point of sidestepping traditional safety measures to rush prodcuts on the market, could not possibly be related to money. No way!

And still, like I said, I've taken care of patients admitted for Guillian Barre. It's a real and very scary potential sequelae of this vaccine. And still, never had a patient admitted for the flu. We know certain populations (youth, elders, comorbities) are at greater risk, need to make sure THOSE populations are vaccinated, if they so CHOOSE. I thought that in America, everyone gets a choice. "Mandatory" condition of employment is NOT a "choice", as some people claim, if your desire is to maintain employment, as is a goal for most of us. And the neonate/geriatric population is at increased risk for many things, not just the flu. Shall we force the pneumonia vaccine on those caretakers too? Really, where does it end? Where does my personal right over my own body begin?

JMBnurse · Oct 14, 2012

I think it's ridiculous to be forced to take anything into my body. When you enter a healthcare facility, infection is listed as a potential risk to every single thing that you consent to in that hospital. It's part of dealing with people. People have bugs. We do everything we can to minimize risk of infection, but forcing someone to take a controversial substance into their body is crossing the line. At my facility, the only way out is to get a medical doctor to write a note saying it's "contraindicated."...I learned that because of HIPAA, they can't inquire further into the reasoning behind the contraindication and have to back off. Luckily, I just got a job that's not at the bedside so I don't have to deal with this intrusive, dictatorial mandate.
By the way, I have seen more patients hospitalized with Guillian Barre as their primary admission diagnosis than the flu as their primary admission diagnosis.

First of all, you are saying that your physician wrote a note saying the flu vaccine was "contradicted" for you, when it is not? Wow. I hope most physicians would refuse to sign that note as it sounds unethical to me if the true reason is that you don't want to take the shot. Secondly, I have been a nurse for 16 years, working in Med/Surg and Oncology and I have never taken care of, seen someone admitted for or known anyone with Guillain Barre Syndrome. The reason for that is because it is rare. You can also get GBS from the flu itself or many other illnesses and infections. See link below from the CDC, discussing the rarity of GBS.

Thirdly, I don't know in which areas of nursing you have worked, but to say that more patients are admitted with GBS as their primary diagnosis than the flu is completely false. Every year all over this country, many patients are admitted with influenza or flu related illness and many die. The numbers of people who have or die from GBS are comparatively miniscule.

“Last summer, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a report showing that over 20,000 people a year die in the U.S. as a result of influenza. About 90% of those people are over age 65, even though people over 65 make up only about 15% of the population.”

These numbers do not even include those that are admitted and treated, but don't die. See link below for the numbers of Americans who die every year from the flu.

With 90% of U.S. Influenza Deaths in Elderly, New High Dose Vaccine Seeks Lower Mortality, Morbidity Rates

If you don't want to get the flu vaccine for whatever reason, then don't get it. If you don't work in a place where it is mandatory, then congratulations, that works out good for you, but please don't perpetuate myths and scare others from receiving a vaccine that has been proven to save lives and prevent the spread of illness.