Higher H1N1 flu risk after receiving seasonal flu vaccine

[lamazeteacher]

i went to a canadian news link posted on another site, and saw the following article:

(two and a half weeks after i had the seasonal flu vaccine, i got the flu, which seems to validate the article.)

i wonder why the information hasn't been picked up by the cdc.

seasonal flu shot may increase h1n1 risk

last updated: wednesday, september 23, 2009 | 10:03 pm et

cbc news

across canada, public health authorities are fiercely debating the idea of shortening, delaying or scrapping their seasonal flu vaccination campaign in favour of mass inoculation against h1n1. (greg baker/associated press) preliminary research suggests the seasonal flu shot may put people at greater risk for getting swine flu, cbc news has learned.

"this is some evidence that has been floated. it hasn't been validated yet, it's very preliminary," cautioned dr. don low, microbiologist-in-chief at mount sinai hospital in toronto.

"this is obviously important data to help guide policy decisions. how can we best protect people against influenza?"

it's important to validate the information, which has not been peer reviewed, to make sure it's not just a fluke, and that the observation is confirmed elsewhere such as in the southern hemisphere, which just completed its seasonal flu season, or in the u.s. and uk.

four canadian studies involved about 2,000 people, health officials told cbc news. researchers found people who had received the seasonal flu vaccine in the past were more likely to get sick with the h1n1 virus.

researchers know that, theoretically, when people are exposed to bacteria or a virus, it can stimulate the immune system to create antibodies that facilitate the entry of another strain of the virus or disease. dengue fever is one example, low said.

no seasonal flu shot?

the latest finding raises questions about the order in which to get flu shots.

across canada, public health authorities are debating the idea of shortening, delaying or scrapping their seasonal flu vaccination campaign in favour of mass inoculation against h1n1.

the main reason is that h1n1 may be the dominant strain of influenza circulating when the fall flu season hits, meaning it could be a waste of time and resources to mount a seasonal flu vaccine campaign.

health authorities in quebec are considering cancelling or postponing seasonal flu shots for some groups, such as healthy, younger adults.

the public health agency of canada says it's up to provinces and territories to decide on when to roll out flu shots.

"we don't know with this year's flu shot how it interacts with the pandemic flu shot, so it's a worry," said dr. michael gardam, director of infectious diseases prevention and control at the ontario agency for health protection

here's another thing about transmission of disease causing contaminents in the air we breathe that we've known about planes, which have issues about opening windows, but in office, hospital, clinic, and hotels there are often no openable windows.....

"most buildings, especially business centres and hospitals are sealed, with no openings for fresh air circulation; questions were raised in the late 1970's and early '80's about safety / hazards or hvac and, i believe, we are now seeing some of the results."

skol_fir wrote:posted 2009/09/30

at 11:00 am eti have just come across a succinctly worded blog article from today, written by an md, which emphasizes the foolishness of following hearsay evidence to craft public policy. thousands of lives could be endangered because a premature news release scares people into avoiding potentially life-saving measures. we need to pay heed to his warning.

the article is entitled "cold flusion" and can be found at:

-- http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1940 --

internal links

timing of h1n1, seasonal flu shots debated

swine flu

how it's unfolding: a timeline swine flu raises questions about sick leave policies (sept. 25, 2009) seasonal flu shot may increase h1n1 risk (sept. 23, 2009) swine flu hits vancouver and island schools (sept. 23, 2009) swine flu protocol signed for first nations (sept. 19, 2009) swine flu vaccines to fall short: who (sept. 18, 2009) h1n1 vaccine in babies worries expert (sept. 17, 2009) swine flu outbreak hits vancouver island first nations (sept. 17, 2009) fears over h1n1 flu rising in nwt community (sept. 17, 2009) h1n1 vaccine priority groups released sept. 16, 2009 h1n1 vaccines get u.s. approval sept. 15, 2009 1 dose of canada's h1n1 shot protects adults: company sept. 14, 2009 address swine flu vaccine fears, doctor urges sept. 11, 2009 vaccinate kids early to fight swine flu sept. 10, 2009 h1n1 infects cells deep in lungs sept. 10, 2009 swine flu deaths top 2,800 worldwide sept. 4, 2009 canada's swine flu vaccine coming in october sept. 3, 2009 swine flu vaccine on schedule: health minister sept. 2, 2009 flu vaccine plan will be too slow: cmaj august 31, 2009 feds, first nations leaders at odds on swine flu preparations august 29, 2009 swine flu vaccine funding boosted august 27, 2009 swine flu 'czar' needed: cma journal august 17, 2009 canada to order 50.4 million h1n1 vaccine doses august 6, 2009 universities brace for fall swine flu wave july 30, 2009 canadian swine flu vaccine set for october july 17, 2009 alcohol-based sanitizers for flu-hit first nations delayed over substance abuse fears june 23, 2009 who declares swine flu pandemic, no change in canada's approach june 11, 2009 swine flu epidemic in decline: mexico may 3, 2009 no sustained spread of swine flu virus outside north america: who may 2, 2009 canada doing all that's needed to respond to swine flu: pm april 30, 2009 who boosts pandemic alert level to 5 april 29, 2009 [/url]

h1n1 confirmed in toronto teen's death comments344|recommend286

a 13-year-old minor league hockey player from the toronto area has died as a result of the h1n1 flu virus.

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headlines

h1n1 vaccine clinics hit by 'pent-up demand' the federal government has ordered enough h1n1 vaccine for every canadian, but it's not possible to provide it to everyone all at once. h1n1 confirmed in toronto teen's death a 13-year-old minor league hockey player from the toronto area has died as a result of the h1n1 flu virus.

[tewdles, RN]

IF that info is shared on air by Rush it will be as good as gold for way too many people...

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

I believe the US, UK, and Australia disagree with these findings and the study methodology. I am sorry, but I do not remember where I saw that information.

[Purple_Scrubs, BSN, RN]

Another case of people confusing correlation and causation. I am not buying this at all.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

one thought on this, that i read when it first came out, was that the population electing to get the vac., was self selected of the group most at risk......

[RedWeasel, RN]

I didn't read your article all the way through yet but I thought the study found those who got a seasonal vaccine last year were more susceptible, (not necessarily this year since when the study was done, the seasonal wasn't out yet?)...I will keep looking...

yes it says 'a seasonal flu shot in the past' -which is how many of us? And how many who signed up for the study may have already been high risk (as another member mentioned) so I would bet this is a nonfactor...2000 people I am sure most of them have at some point in their lives had a flu shot....

[lamazeteacher]

I believe the US, UK, and Australia disagree with these findings and the study methodology. I am sorry, but I do not remember where I saw that information.

They haven't had adequate time to refute Canada's findings, which do not contain a double blind study, for obvious reasons. However 2,000 people in 4 separate studies isn't anecdotal. Canada had the benefit of time, because GlaxoSmithKline vaccine was available to them earlier than the vaccine we got later from Novartis, in limited quantity. For reasons unknown, Glaxo's vaccine is not getting approval from the FDA.

I'll search for the findings reported by the UK and Australia. If you find them, please comment here, CrunchRN.

Incidently it's my understanding that our (Northern CA) health departments are using the HH agency Maxim to administer the vaccines, rather than hire their own temporary personnel. I'm against this, because Maxim underpays RNs, without telling them what their salary will be at hire; and the cost is very inflated.

If we continued to use private profit making agencies, the Reform of Health Care bill would be doomed to failure.

[lamazeteacher]

Another case of people confusing correlation and causation. I am not buying this at all.

Please expand your comment. I'm interested in knowing how you formed your conclusion. (sort of like asking you to show your math calculations - joke)

[lamazeteacher]

I didn't read your article all the way through yet but I thought the study found those who got a seasonal vaccine last year were more susceptible, (not necessarily this year since when the study was done, the seasonal wasn't out yet?)...I will keep looking...

yes it says 'a seasonal flu shot in the past' -which is how many of us? And how many who signed up for the study may have already been high risk (as another member mentioned) so I would bet this is a nonfactor...2000 people I am sure most of them have at some point in their lives had a flu shot....

I think that more than 2,000 people would be included in any study of those people who got H1N1 flu after the seasonal vaccine was given a year and possibly for many years, if that was the case (that any year in which seasonal flu vaccine was given was being considered as causal).

The Canadian study which was reported in the thread (sorry the link appeared so much after my referral to it), was done this year, with 2,000 +/- folks in 4 separate studies, who had a seasonal flu vaccination beore the H1N1 vaccine was given, and who got the H1N1 flu after having the seasonal vaccine (as I did, and believe me, it wasn't mild ).

[Laidback Al]

one thought on this, that i read when it first came out, was that the population electing to get the vac., was self selected of the group most at risk......

morte is on the right track here.

Until the article is published, we can not really evaluate the results of the study. At this time, the results of this study are not supported by previous research. Here is how I would have designed the study, using people who were actually infected with H1N1, to test this hypothesis. I have previously posted this comment at www. FluTrackers.com.

Making a claims is very different than providing data to support it.

Here is how I would have designed the study if I had enlisted 2000 Canadians who were all tested for H1N1 prior to study. I would have selected 1000 individuals who were infected and 1000 who were definitely not infected. I would have created 1000 pairs of individuals (infected-not infected), matched on age, sex, underlying condition, general health status, etc. Holding these variables constant I would then statistically compare how many of the infected individuals received seasonal flu shots in 2008 with how many of the uninfected individuals also received flu shots in 2008 while controlling for the matched variables. Such a matched pair comparison would clearly support or refute claims that have been made about whether or not seasonal flu vaccination increases the risk of H1N1 infection.

We are still waiting for the public release of the data.

[RedWeasel, RN]

I think that more than 2,000 people would be included in any study of those people who got H1N1 flu after the seasonal vaccine was given a year and possibly for many years, if that was the case (that any year in which seasonal flu vaccine was given was being considered as causal).

The Canadian study which was reported in the thread (sorry the link appeared so much after my referral to it), was done this year, with 2,000 +/- folks in 4 separate studies, who had a seasonal flu vaccination beore the H1N1 vaccine was given, and who got the H1N1 flu after having the seasonal vaccine (as I did, and believe me, it wasn't mild ).

Yes. I have had many a flu shot in the past. I am 99.9% sure I got the H1N1 Flu on July 5th. I keep talking about this on Allnurses so sorry! I will always remember that date. I am still having effects from it. Sinus infection first, then strep, then more recently, since I never have fully recovered, I ended up with a nasty case of bronchitis (sometimes I feel like I have had pertussis (the 100 day cough)-I start coughing and can't stop. My throat closes up and spasms shut and I can't get any air in. It only happens a few times a day. My chg RN witnesses me do it today while eating and she was telling us a joke. She was like "Are you okay?" Finally I could relax my throat enough to get air in and it just was a stacatto inhalation whooping (did I just make that up?). So I know how you feel. And yes I do feel like a hypochondriac at times. yeah, not pretty and definitely NOT mild...for me anyway!

[lamazeteacher]

"We are still waiting for the public release of the data." quote from post#9

What data, Laidback Al?

The study in Canada didn't involve data regarding who got seasonal flu vaccine prior to this year......