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no more NS at chairside!



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Jun 11, 2009 07:46 PM

no more NS at chairside!


So state surveyor says that since NS is a medication, and we can't draw up meds chairside, we now have to take a fresh liter bag of NS to the med area, draw up our flushes for CVCs and take-offs, then discard bag of NS (since it is technically single-use.) And they can't be drawn up until after treatment has started since it is only good for 4 hours. This means for every pt that is over 3.5 hours, we will be using 3 bags of NS, instead of the regular 2. Cost, cost, cost. So far we can't get pre-filleds or vials or anything, since this is such a new issue. Apparently my clinic is the first IN THE COUNTRY to have this come up as an issue. We all do it, have done it for years! Why has no one ever had a problem with it before?
So, instead of drawing up the NS from the NS line!(thought that was what it was for) we have to take an extra bag, use it for no more than 40ml of NS, then discard. We start doing this tomorrow, so I have no idea how it will go. Sounds like such a hassle to me!
What do y'all think? And get ready, because it is coming to a clinic near you!


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15 Comments
No. 1
Old Jun 11, 2009, 07:59 PM

Default Re: no more NS at chairside!
It sounds like your surveyor had to really look to find something to ding your clinic for on the audit. I can't see what the problem is with pulling saline from the saline line. We use it during rinseback & the patient is receiving it intravenously. Sounds like a lot of wasted NS.
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No. 2
Old Jun 11, 2009, 09:43 PM

Dollar Re: no more NS at chairside!
Woa!!! Interesting! Well, it will probably be a hassle till everyone gets used to it. But the cost will be the thing. See if you can't order vials of NS similar to the vials of sterile water. We had 50ml vials of sterile water then we started ordering the 10ml vials. Just a thought.
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No. 3
Old Jun 12, 2009, 08:19 AM

Default Re: no more NS at chairside!
well apparently Davita and FMC lobbied the State and got that ruling overturned, so forget everything I said. We were just going to have to use liter bags in the mean time because Davita wasn't willing to shell out for the 150ml bags, or pre-filled syringes, or vials.
But I guess it's all good now! Whew.
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No. 4
from Lacie
Old Jun 12, 2009, 12:24 PM

Default Re: no more NS at chairside!
We were also told Medicare wont pay any longer for the NS bags and IV tubing for administration of antibiotics and iron. We did mix our Ferrlecit in 250ml saline bags now they have to push it. More pts suffereing n/v and b/p drops even administering slowly. How they can say saline and lines arent paid for in antibiotic admin is beyond me? How are we supposed to administer it then. Pts that bring thier own albumin now have to also bring thier own tubing for administration. We also limit cath care to once a week now in lieu of every treatment. Have to tear off pieces of tape and attach to our fingers then take it to the pts chairside to use and put on the chairshide table. I would think this would be a bigger issue of contamination then carrying a roll lol. Who is making up these new rules? Some paper pusher with no common sense.
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No. 5
Old Jun 12, 2009, 06:23 PM

Default Re: no more NS at chairside!
wow. that wouldn't fly in my clinic. When one person goes on abxs, it seems that other ppl do, too! We have only 2 pumps in the clinic. and sometimes 4 ppl at a time are getting abx! With no tubing...that just wouldn't work.
We use Venofer, and we push it into venous chamber. we don't infuse it. The rule is 1mL/min. I try my best to adhere to it. They hate that iron, don't they? I'm sure I would, too. One lady is very sensitive to it, her BP drops and she gets a HA. it's a troublesome drug, lol. And it stains.

On a happy note, I started a new buttonholer today! Woohoo!
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No. 6
Old Jun 12, 2009, 06:28 PM

Default Re: no more NS at chairside!
OMG. Where do they FIND these people? Do they even really know what they`re talking about???
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No. 7
Old Jun 12, 2009, 06:46 PM

Default Re: no more NS at chairside!
The surveyors you mean?? I know, really.
When our survey was going on, we had a lady with us from the regional office who pretty much WROTE Davita's P&P. She was right behind the surveyor as she walked around, asking us questions (right in the middle of turnaround, of course), making sure the surveyor knew what was going on. SHe would ask, "Ok, now what are you doing with that? Ok, show me how you use it. Ok, where do you record that information? How do I know this machine passed all it's tests?"
I was checking pH and conductivity, and initialing all my machine checks at the chairside computer. Davita lady comes up behind her because she starts to questions Well, how does that information get into patients chart? Etc, etc. Blah blah!
When I was returning blood, I filled my 10mL syringe and then flushed the line, then hooked up arterial line to NS line. She was just baffled! Questions, questions. Davita lady showed her P&P, this is the way we have done it forever, this is the way EVERYONE does it, here it is, Of course it is an approved method! They were going at it for a while.
Darn surveyors. But we did excellent.
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No. 8
Old Jun 12, 2009, 07:58 PM

Default Re: no more NS at chairside!
I`m glad you guys did well in your inspection! It just baffles me that these state surveyors don`t know even what they are looking at. That`s like me going into a machine shop and making up rules on the fly. I was hoping when I got away from hospital nursing that I was getting away from the bull**** of that kind of mindless regulation. I guess not.
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No. 9
Old Jun 13, 2009, 12:46 PM

Default Re: no more NS at chairside!
Well she came on a patient complaint. SHe should've just tried to validate the claim, in a 3 day time period. But instead, she decided to do a full-out survey since we hadn't had our federal in over 5 years. And there are at least 3 brand new clnics in the DFW that I know of, that are waiting on their Medicare certification, so they can actually Take some patients and get the clinic rolling!
Why there are 3 new Davitas in the metro Dallas area is beyond me. There are probably 10 in total, just Davita. And they wonder why they can't find the staff? BUt that's another thread entirely!
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