ER nurse accessing Dialysis Cath in Emergency

  1. 0 I am a nurse working in an emergency department. I had a patient last week that came in with a dialysis cath in her left chest wall. First of all let me say that I know to NEVER touch them. But here is the problem, the patient was most likely septic, 80 some years old. We needed to get a fluid bolus into her. there was absolutely no access....even the doc couldn't get an EJ started. They were just going for a central line when the little old lady died. So my question, would it ever be acceptable to access the dialysis cath and if so ..HOW to do it with the supplies on hand in the ER.

    thanks

    Huachuca
  2. Visit  Huachuca profile page

    About Huachuca

    53 Years Old; Joined Sep '05; Posts: 29; Likes: 15.

    12 Comments so far...

  3. Visit  psalm profile page
    0
    At our hospital we need a doctor's order to use the permacath for fluids. I work on the floor and sometimes when there's no other route, the doc will give an order, but I don't think it is protocol. There are orders to follow concerning when to use heparin and to withdraw waste before starting fluids.
  4. Visit  mo-mo profile page
    0
    Permcaths are usually heparinized with 5,000unit/ml or 10,000 unit /ml heparin. Sometimes there with be 'cathflo' or TPA in the line, or antibiotics, insead. Therefore, it's very important to withdraw a few cc's before flushing a dialysis catheter. Otherwise, its just a central line... BUt don't mess it up cuz, it is that pts life line, literally. It needs to be properly maintained. Especially AFTER use.

    IMO, every ER nurse and EMT should be trained on basic access and care of HD accesses. In a life threatening situation, better to use it and save a life, regardless of the old "nobody touches it but dialysis staff" addage.

    Bring it up to your leader.Following the death of this woman, he/she is bound to listen.
  5. Visit  Huachuca profile page
    0
    Thanks for those words of advise. I think I will go to my nurse educator with this because it would be great to be educated about it BEFORE you have to figure it out the hard way.

    Huachuca
  6. Visit  steelcityrn profile page
    0
    Having just had a dialysis patient in homecare who almost lost her only arm that can have a dialysis catherter, I agree that protocol has to be maintained, this is their lifeline. This poor woman went through he** with hers clotting off and the need for a fem catheter (temporary use only). She wanted to give up and die, but after talking things over with her, she will now look into having all her pre-testing to be placed onto the kidney transplant list.
  7. Visit  diabo profile page
    0
    Great post, MO MO. Most important points: withdraw 3-5cc and discard. Best to flush with 8cc or so of NS then hook up the fluids. When finished run the fluids at KVO to the port. That way you don't have to draw up a flush after each push med. just open the line for a second to flush. The port can be properly stored at a later time. Just make sure the doc writes it clearly so the nurses in the unit the patient gets transferred to don't just cut the fluid off and clot her lifeline.
  8. Visit  nursedandy profile page
    0
    It is also important to note that when using the dialysis pt's catheter in infusing TPN it needs to be flush 2 times per day to avoid protein build up which will cause the catheter to clog . Also not advisable to use the catheter with infusion with flow rate of 10cc/hr and below.:spin:
  9. Visit  CVICURN2003 profile page
    0
    Quote from Huachuca
    Thanks for those words of advise. I think I will go to my nurse educator with this because it would be great to be educated about it BEFORE you have to figure it out the hard way.

    Huachuca
    We have to have a MD order and it be an EMERGENCY. I have used Quinton's often (We . If you clotted off her cath (which would be BAD) becasue you "couldn't use the perma cath" and she die sbecasue she needed a life saving med (she did), the fact that her perma cath is still intact is great....except she is DEAD. So, this is not a flame toward you at all, where was the MD to tell you to use the permacath (after wasted and flushed) for IV access. So, I would definatly tell my educator or nurse leader to make sure there are protocols in place for those situations.
  10. Visit  Hellllllo Nurse profile page
    0
    Quote from CVICURN2003
    We have to have a MD order and it be an EMERGENCY. I have used Quinton's often (We . If you clotted off her cath (which would be BAD) becasue you "couldn't use the perma cath" and she die sbecasue she needed a life saving med (she did), the fact that her perma cath is still intact is great....except she is DEAD. So, this is not a flame toward you at all, where was the MD to tell you to use the permacath (after wasted and flushed) for IV access. So, I would definatly tell my educator or nurse leader to make sure there are protocols in place for those situations.
    I agree. What good is an untouched dialysis access if the pt is dead?

    It's like the old saying "The operation was a success, but the pt died."

    If you want to make an omlet, you gotta break a few eggs.
  11. Visit  Migrant_Renal_RN profile page
    0
    As a dialysis nurse of 17 years, having done acutes and chronics...and the wife of a dialysis patient....I encourage you to use another site if possible, however, with dialysis patients that is not always the case!! It much better to use a site that is available in an emergency situation, and ask forgiveness later, ie.call the acute nurses or the dialysis clinic to report your action and ask the best way to resecure the site to maintain patency!! A dialysis access is not going to do a dead patient any good, and sometimes, fumbling around trying to get an alternative IV line in may bugger up future dialysis access sites.
  12. Visit  nephrohemorn profile page
    0
    I work in a smaller dialysis clinic inside a hospital. We only dialyze chronic "stable" patients as we do not have a nephrologist on-site. If there is a dialysis patient in our ER dept. and they needed to use the dialysis access (ONLY IF IMPOSSIBLE to get another site) they call to our unit and one of our hemo nurses would go to the ER to access the site. When they are finished with it, one of us would go over to flush, heparinize and cap-off the site. This doesn't happen frequently, but that is the best answer, if at all possible. We will also go over to draw bloodwork if unable to get from a venipuncture.
  13. Visit  Acute Dialysis RN profile page
    0
    Quote from mo-mo
    Permcaths are usually heparinized with 5,000unit/ml or 10,000 unit /ml heparin. Sometimes there with be 'cathflo' or TPA in the line, or antibiotics, insead. Therefore, it's very important to withdraw a few cc's before flushing a dialysis catheter. Otherwise, its just a central line... BUt don't mess it up cuz, it is that pts life line, literally. It needs to be properly maintained. Especially AFTER use.

    IMO, every ER nurse and EMT should be trained on basic access and care of HD accesses. In a life threatening situation, better to use it and save a life, regardless of the old "nobody touches it but dialysis staff" addage.

    Bring it up to your leader.Following the death of this woman, he/she is bound to listen.

    Great points. In our hospitals I have helped them formulate policy on accessing the cathater so it is in line with how we provide care. we review it anually and certainly it is not accessed without the order of a Nephrologist and as a last resort.
  14. Visit  jnette profile page
    0
    IMO, every ER nurse and EMT should be trained on basic access and care of HD accesses. In a life threatening situation, better to use it and save a life, regardless of the old "nobody touches it but dialysis staff" addage.


    Agree wholeheartedly.

    We would often have to send a pt. to the ED and none of the nurses there would know how to pull the needle and/or even hold the site. One of our (usually "short") staff would always have to leave the clinic and go to the ER with the pt. merely to hold the site.

    Doesn't make sense.


Nursing Jobs in every specialty and state. Visit today and find your dream job.

A Big Thank You To Our Sponsors
Top
close
close