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Question on Pediatric Insulin Administration



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No. 10
from *ac*
Old Aug 03, 2009, 08:52 AM

Default Re: Question on Pediatric Insulin Administration
Originally Posted by ChristineN View Post
Don't misunderstand, I'm grateful for your feedback. You are reinforcing my thought that standing orders are not that common in pediatrics. I believe, though, as nurses are given more autonomy, that this is something we will see more of.
At my hospital, even the chief residents don't have that autonomy; there's no way the nurses will get it. As I said, only the attending endocrinologist makes dosing decisions.
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No. 11
from ChristineN
Old Aug 03, 2009, 09:05 AM

Default Re: Question on Pediatric Insulin Administration
Originally Posted by *ac* View Post
At my hospital, even the chief residents don't have that autonomy; there's no way the nurses will get it. As I said, only the attending endocrinologist makes dosing decisions.
Wow. At my facility we have endocrinology fellows that typically determine the insulin orders. However, for our knowns, they may have in their progress note "continue following this X plan from home" but unfortunately, it is currently against hospital policy for their to be a standing order for insulin so they are not allowed to just write an order to continue following the home regimen.


Does your facility even use fellows? I would think it'd be easier to get a hold of the fellow than the attending.

I think that there will have to be some clear cut guidelines if I am able to institute a standing order. For example, all insulin doses would be checked with another RN to verify accuracy, and the doctor would still be notified when the pt has ketones, as well as being notified if blood sugar goes above a certain pre-determined amount.
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No. 12
Old Aug 04, 2009, 09:47 AM

Default Re: Question on Pediatric Insulin Administration
Yeah, standing orders for insulin just isn't going to happen - I mean, 1 unit for one person can drop a blood sugar 30 points, but for another, 1 unit can drop someone 120 points - so, standing orders for insulin would be extremely dangerous in that sense...been working with diabetes for a while, I've seen everything from correction factors of 1:20 points to 1:150 points...and carb ratios from 1:5 carbs to 1:50 carbs...makes it difficult to have an overhead standing order to cover everybody...

Now, if the endo has set something up customized to EACH patient, that would be more feasible, but to everybody...I think it would be asking for disaster...
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No. 13
from ChristineN
Old Aug 04, 2009, 10:18 AM

Default Re: Question on Pediatric Insulin Administration
Originally Posted by cocoon2butterfly View Post
Yeah, standing orders for insulin just isn't going to happen - I mean, 1 unit for one person can drop a blood sugar 30 points, but for another, 1 unit can drop someone 120 points - so, standing orders for insulin would be extremely dangerous in that sense...been working with diabetes for a while, I've seen everything from correction factors of 1:20 points to 1:150 points...and carb ratios from 1:5 carbs to 1:50 carbs...makes it difficult to have an overhead standing order to cover everybody...

Now, if the endo has set something up customized to EACH patient, that would be more feasible, but to everybody...I think it would be asking for disaster...
Sorry, let me re-explain. All I'm asking is for those that are known diabetics with a home protocol to be allowed to have that exact same protocol as a standing order for their hospital stay. It might say "follow pt's home sliding scale of.... and follow pt's carb to insulin ratio of....." I know this is a very differnt idea for peds, But Seattle Children's currently does it, as well as Sutter Medical Center in Sacremento. From the detailed examples I've seen for both hospitals, these order sets are a little more involved than a simple one time order would be, but I believe that if the patient is getting their insulin much closer to when their blood sugar was originally checked it will lead to much better coverage.
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