Top 10 Reasons Against Unions - page 9

top ten reasons why we don't want a union 10. the union doesn't write my paycheck. 9. unions would rather cause problems than work together. 8. union scale means the best workers are... Read More

  1. Visit  somenurse profile page
    1
    well, SC_rndude,
    you have a right to disbelieve me, but, that doesn't make what i am telling you is untrue. The cops were often called to do what is called "welfare checks" on nurses who were not answering their phones at 2am. But, the cops knew the hospital was in no way worried about that nurse's health, at all, and just wanted the nurse to wake up and call the hospital. The cop who entered my room, even stated, "you have to call your boss."
    Again, i was NOT the only nurse this happened to,
    as the hospital had no way to 'get us' if we didn't answer the phones. The cops often were in the E.R., all the time, and the cops/nurses seemed to sort of see each other as all part of a team of sorts, in public service kinda thing. The nightshift supervisors often interacted with the nightshift cops,
    and yes, this really happened. It might still be happening, what i describe here happened in 2001, not that long ago.

    It's very tempting to post the exact name or even town this hospital is in, to see if any other nurses on ALLNURSES.COM are from that town, to vouch for me,
    but, guess it doesn't matter if my experience is unbelievable to YOU or not. It happened, and might still be going on in that hospital, that IS how they managed the day by day census increases, is mandating nurses in early, or stay later,
    and this all relied on the nurse answering the phone.

    I also suspect, that the hospital rather wanted it known, among their nurses, that if you don't answer the phone, there will be consequences. Most ppl don't want cops coming to their homes to do "welfare checks" (checking on welfare of that person). There *might* have been times, that the supervisors called the cops to do this, and the cops were too busy, coulda happened now and then, i don't know, but, it happened often enough!!
    herring_RN likes this.
  2. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    0
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    well, SC_rndude,
    you have a right to disbelieve me, but, that doesn't make what i am telling you is untrue. The cops were often called to do what is called "welfare checks" on nurses who were not answering their phones at 2am. But, the cops knew the hospital was in no way worried about that nurse's health, at all, and just wanted the nurse to wake up and call the hospital. The cop who entered my room, even stated, "you have to call your boss."
    Again, i was NOT the only nurse this happened to,
    as the hospital had no way to 'get us' if we didn't answer the phones. The cops often were in the E.R., all the time, and the cops/nurses seemed to sort of see each other as all part of a team of sorts, in public service kinda thing. The nightshift supervisors often interacted with the nightshift cops,
    and yes, this really happened. It might still be happening, what i describe here happened in 2001, not that long ago.

    It's very tempting to post the exact name or even town this hospital is in, to see if any other nurses on ALLNURSES.COM are from that town, to vouch for me,
    but, guess it doesn't matter if my experience is unbelievable to YOU or not. It happened, and might still be going on in that hospital, that IS how they managed the day by day census increases, is mandating nurses in early, or stay later,
    and this all relied on the nurse answering the phone.

    I also suspect, that the hospital rather wanted it known, among their nurses, that if you don't answer the phone, there will be consequences. Most ppl don't want cops coming to their homes to do "welfare checks" (checking on welfare of that person). There *might* have been times, that the supervisors called the cops to do this, and the cops were too busy, coulda happened now and then, i don't know, but, it happened often enough!!
    You are right in that no one wants cops coming to their homes for welfare checks, unless of course it is for good reason. And, it is against the law for one to come into your home without permission or a reason to believe someone inside is in danger.

    No, it's not still going on 10 years later. Someone in that time would have had the brains to not put up with that. If the cops were part of this to the extent you say, one call to the ACLU would have snuffed that out in a heartbeat.
  3. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    0
    Quote from nicurn001
    I think that what Jean Marie may be an outlier , but the point is that in some areas of the country nurses are harrassed by their employers by mandated extra shifts , these shifts are not staffed because the admin. refuses to employ enough nurses to cover the regular number of patients that hospital has ( I understand that emergencies lead to unexpected staffing needs , but here we are talking of regular / frequent mandating of staff ) , these employers tend to be in areas where unions are not active (conclusion drawn , from the many threads , which have touched upon this topic on AL , through the years ).
    I understand and don't necessarily disagree with that point, although I have never been in a union and seem to have worked in places better then many union places I hear of.

    Anyway, I have a legal background prior to nursing, and I couldn't get my head wrapped around that cop story. I had to know more!
  4. Visit  somenurse profile page
    1
    //"No, it's not still going on 10 years later."//


    I am not as sure as you are. This had been going on for years prior to it happening to ME. This was NOT a one-time thing, at all.

    This hospital fired nurses at the drop of a hat, as there is a nursing glut in the area, with no less than six (6) nursing schools in this area, all cranking out 100s of cheap new nurses all vying for a job, and this IS the ONLY hospital in this town, which is surrounded by countryside for an hour in most every direction. This hosp had no competition, so far as nursing jobs go.

    The nurse that the ACLU was quoting, would be fired, battaboom. They'd have to have specific examples of events they felt were an abuse of the employee.

    I am not sure the ACLU could object if a hospital said,
    that each and every time they sent cops to a nurses home that the hosp had a concern about that nurse not answering her phone at 2am. No way to prove it, i don't think.

    mind you, usually the cops merely knock on the nurse's door til she answers it, but, in this case, the apt manager let the cop into my apt, and the cop may have been in a hurry, didn't want to be standing out there, i have no idea whose idea it was to have manager not only open the outer door, but also my apt door as well. i doubt the hospital was involved in THAT decision to have apt manager open up my apt door, i really don't think so. My guess is, THAT decision, was between the cop and the apt manager, NOT the hospital.
    My opinion is,
    that the hospital's only role in this, was,
    to send out cops to knock on my door.

    not to open the door.

    I am not sure THAT is "illegal" really. Honestly, i could probably call up the cops right now, and tell them anyone's name, and ask them to go check on that person. I don't think that is "illegal", really.

    There might be a legal basis for a hospital to require add'l nurses, which exempts them from mandating, from requiring that the nurse be contacted.
    who knows? not sure, not sure, if a hospital has a legal right to send out for employees, if the hospital stated it was "an emergency".
    there was NO "emergency", just the usual ebb and flow of the patient census.
    No Stars In My Eyes likes this.
  5. Visit  somenurse profile page
    1
    slightly off topic, but, once in a blizzard on Cape Cod, the Cape Cod hospital sent the National Guard out to pick up nurses to come in for next shift, as we were all snowed in beyond words. But, i knew the Nat'l Guard was coming to drive me to work, though, it WAS my scheduled shift.
    When i called to say i could not even get out of my driveway, let alone down my street, the hospital said they'd add to me to "pick up list".

    Was kinda fun, actually, whole bunch of us all in the back of a deuce and a half truck, on our way to work, kinda like a school bus! ha ha!!

    on the downside, no one had told us, we would NOT get rides back HOME again, so we all ended up staying there for 3 days !! That was kinda fun, though, and that is when i learned, that if you use the liquid soap that comes in enema packs to wash your hair, it really shines!! It was kinda like a slumber party, all of us nurses crammed into one room to sleep, ha ha, kinda funny.
    we did work some long long hours, though, just dividing ourselves up into who would work which shift. We did not mind, though, was good morale among us, as we KNEW that WAS an actual emergency.


    edit, i am not sure, if some nurses may have been driven home again, that is possible, but, none of the ones i knew got rides back home again, but, none of us strongly objected, either. Perhaps, if a nurse said she HAD TO get back to her home, maybe that nurse would have been driven home again, i don't know. In fact, i bet they probably even asked us, if we could just stay on, in this emergency, if that would work out for us? but, i can't recall, but, probably they did ask us.
    Last edit by somenurse on Nov 26, '12
    No Stars In My Eyes likes this.
  6. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    0
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    //"No, it's not still going on 10 years later."//


    I am not as sure as you are. This had been going on for years prior to it happening to ME. This was NOT a one-time thing, at all.

    This hospital fired nurses at the drop of a hat, as there is a nursing glut in the area, with no less than six (6) nursing schools in this area, all cranking out 100s of cheap new nurses all vying for a job, and this IS the ONLY hospital in this town, which is surrounded by countryside for an hour in most every direction. This hosp had no competition, so far as nursing jobs go.

    The nurse that the ACLU was quoting, would be fired, battaboom. They'd have to have specific examples of events they felt were an abuse of the employee.

    I am not sure the ACLU could object if a hospital said,
    that each and every time they sent cops to a nurses home that the hosp had a concern about that nurse not answering her phone at 2am. No way to prove it, i don't think.

    mind you, usually the cops merely knock on the nurse's door til she answers it, but, in this case, the apt manager let the cop into my apt, and the cop may have been in a hurry, didn't want to be standing out there, i have no idea whose idea it was to have manager not only open the outer door, but also my apt door as well. i doubt the hospital was involved in THAT decision to have apt manager open up my apt door, i really don't think so. My guess is, THAT decision, was between the cop and the apt manager, NOT the hospital.
    My opinion is,
    that the hospital's only role in this, was,
    to send out cops to knock on my door.

    not to open the door.

    I am not sure THAT is "illegal" really. Honestly, i could probably call up the cops right now, and tell them anyone's name, and ask them to go check on that person. I don't think that is "illegal", really.

    There might be a legal basis for a hospital to require add'l nurses, which exempts them from mandating, from requiring that the nurse be contacted.
    who knows? not sure, not sure, if a hospital has a legal right to send out for employees, if the hospital stated it was "an emergency".
    there was NO "emergency", just the usual ebb and flow of the patient census.
    Yes, the police will check on someone if you asked. And they will also ask you a few questions like "why?", and "when is the last time anyone has heard from them?"

    I'm leaving the hospital out of it. The ACLU will ask the police why they are going to people's houses in the middle of the night when they know nothing is wrong. There isn't anything to "prove", unless the police for some reason start lying. The ACLU will suggest they stop this behaviour or they may have a lawsuit to deal with.

    I said it was illegal for a cop to enter your home (unless again, they have reason to believe you are in some sort of danger), not come to your home.

    Anyway, it doen't even have to get to the ACLU.

    The cops come, you ask why, they tell you. You tell them you don't want them coming over at the request of your employer unless you don't call or show up for your shift, if at all. Problem is likely solved. If not, next time talk to a police supervisor. Next, the chief. Next, you call the mayor's office and let them know whats going on. This problem is easily solved.

    One town with one hospital at least an hour away from another town. And there are 6 nursing schools in the area. Wow!

    Where is this place?
  7. Visit  somenurse profile page
    1
    Yes, yes, that would work,
    in a hospital that did NOT fire nurses at the drop of a hat,
    and easily replace them with any of the cheap, new grads of any of the six nursing schools in the area.
    And again, once fired from this hospital,
    there aren't any others around.

    I have no doubt, that there would be communications between the cops and the hospital, if a nurse did go complain. The nightshift cops and the nightshift supervisors all know each other very well, like i said.
    Hospitals seem to carry some authority when they make requests, imo. If the hospital asks the cops to go check on us,
    or told the cops there is some "emergency" requiring add'l staff be roused to come in,
    the cops will comply.(as they've proven)

    but yeah, otherwise, your idea is great.
    lindarn likes this.
  8. Visit  HazelLPN profile page
    4
    Quote from SC_RNDude
    And, union leaders are often stupid and arrogant....and now I'm out of Twinkies and Ding Dongs!

    I'm a retired critical care nurse and worked most of my career in a union hospital and now work for a large urban public school district that is also unionized where the school nurses are served by the same union as the teachers. The school nurses have their own bargaining unit. We have a full time RN in each high school, and depending on acuity, there may be assistant school nurses (usually LPNs) to work with medically fragile/special needs units. In schools where there are no unions, nursing duties are often assigned to school secretaries to save money vs paying for an LPN or an RN and the school nurse may have to supervise many buildings. With the number of students who live in poverty that we serve, the school nurse is often the only health care provided that our kids see on a regular basis.

    Arrogant and stupid? That hardly fits any union leader that I worked for in all my years in nursing. They have all been there make sure that nurses had a VOICE in what they do and could bargain vs beg.

    Sorry about the loss of your Twinkies. There may be a support group out there for people like you and you may (sadly) run into my grandson at one of those meeting.

    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
    herring_RN, somenurse, laborer, and 1 other like this.
  9. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    0
    Quote from HazelLPN
    I'm a retired critical care nurse and worked most of my career in a union hospital and now work for a large urban public school district that is also unionized where the school nurses are served by the same union as the teachers. The school nurses have their own bargaining unit. We have a full time RN in each high school, and depending on acuity, there may be assistant school nurses (usually LPNs) to work with medically fragile/special needs units. In schools where there are no unions, nursing duties are often assigned to school secretaries to save money vs paying for an LPN or an RN and the school nurse may have to supervise many buildings. With the number of students who live in poverty that we serve, the school nurse is often the only health care provided that our kids see on a regular basis.

    Arrogant and stupid? That hardly fits any union leader that I worked for in all my years in nursing. They have all been there make sure that nurses had a VOICE in what they do and could bargain vs beg.

    Sorry about the loss of your Twinkies. There may be a support group out there for people like you and you may (sadly) run into my grandson at one of those meeting.

    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
    That is sad that a school nurse is the only health care that some kids see on a regular basis. However, it isn't the role of the school to be a healthcare provider. Not to say that having a nurse being in a school is a bad thing, but with budget constraints I can understand some places choose not to have one. Training a employee in first aid and then calling the parents or 911 for anything more serious then that is acceptable in my opinion.

    I'm sure some places avoid hiring a RN for that role because they don't want another union employee. So, in those cases it is actually costing jobs and impairing the care provided to students.

    I heard one of the union leaders involved in the Hostess negotiations in a radio interview. I don't recall his exact words, but the just of it was that even though they had been warned by the company for a long time and they obviously knew about the company'sfinancial problems in the past, and they did have access to the company's books, they didn't really believe the situation was as dire as it was. In this case, that is stupid and arrogant.

    A support group...what a great idea. Maybe I'll get one started. I'll let you know so you can get your grandson in touch with me. Lol!
  10. Visit  HazelLPN profile page
    3
    Quote from SC_RNDude
    That is sad that a school nurse is the only health care that some kids see on a regular basis. However, it isn't the role of the school to be a healthcare provider. Not to say that having a nurse being in a school is a bad thing, but with budget constraints I can understand some places choose not to have one. Training a employee in first aid and then calling the parents or 911 for anything more serious then that is acceptable in my opinion.

    I'm sure some places avoid hiring a RN for that role because they don't want another union employee. So, in those cases it is actually costing jobs and impairing the care provided to students.

    I heard one of the union leaders involved in the Hostess negotiations in a radio interview. I don't recall his exact words, but the just of it was that even though they had been warned by the company for a long time and they obviously knew about the company'sfinancial problems in the past, and they did have access to the company's books, they didn't really believe the situation was as dire as it was. In this case, that is stupid and arrogant.

    A support group...what a great idea. Maybe I'll get one started. I'll let you know so you can get your grandson in touch with me. Lol!
    I think you must have misunderstood. The school districts that HAVE unions like mine require an RN at each of the high schools and sometimes an LPN for special needs units. The NON Union schools replace the RN or LPN with other non nursing staff, so it has nothing to do with wanting another union member. I don't think a single school nurse or teacher who will agree with you that the school nurse's position isn't vital to the students they serve.

    The roles of the schools have changed over the years, and the schools do need to keep our children safe and healthy while they are there, so I'm going to have to politely and respectfully disagree with you. School nursing isn't easy. Oh I thought it was when I was as PICU nurse, but not now after I've done the job for a few years. We have many more medically fragile children in our public schools serve than ever before. It isn't uncommon for me to have kiddos on vents, with G tubes, who need cathed or who I need to start TPN for. We also deal with child abuse, pregancy, STDs, sexual health, sexual orientation and gender identity issues, bullying, a lot of psychological problems and students who have serious health issues and need teaching. There is some first aid and bandaids, but that's not what we spend the majority of our time on. Thankfully, we have a union which listens to its school nurses and teachers who can give us a voice that we advocate for our students to create the best safe learning environment.

    I doubt the union is to blame for the decline in the Hostess company as I've heard much different information about how the upper administration was mostly to blame.

    Before you start your support group, I saw last night on MSNBC that there are several companies that wish to buy Hostess and continue their products so I doubt you'll have to wait for long. My grandson was so thrilled that he called me to turn on the Ed Show. Where did I go wrong? I won the blue ribbon for pies three years in a row at the county fair back in the 80s...and this kid still eats twinkies! I wonder if your grandmother and I can find our own support group for grandmothers who's grandkids don't appreciate the dying art of good old fashioned home cooking!

    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
    herring_RN, lindarn, and laborer like this.
  11. Visit  olddragger profile page
    3
    I do wonder if the mandatory flu vaccinations or youre fired approach will have an affect on unionizing hospitals that are currently not?
    A union would be there to help protect the individuals rights concerning these type of management decisions.
    I think the time is coming for more nursing unionization. It's sad but it seems that is the only way to protect ourselves and to insist on proper patient care.
    HazelLPN, laborer, and lindarn like this.
  12. Visit  Overland1 profile page
    0
    Quote from Bella'sMyBaby
    Where I live, Nurses aren't unionized, so I don't know much about pros/cons. I do know that Teachers are & they seem to have it pretty good......
    "Fast Forward" almost three years since the original post, and find that many teachers are being laid off by school districts that are going broke.
  13. Visit  anotherone profile page
    0
    Jean Marie, I have been mandated many many times. your story made me lol!!! because i can picture it with my coworkers. some of my friends working in other locations have never been mandated ever in years! or seen coworkers ever mandated!


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