Top 10 Reasons Against Unions - page 11

by PICUPNP 78,267 Views | 287 Comments

top ten reasons why we don't want a union 10. the union doesn't write my paycheck. 9. unions would rather cause problems than work together. 8. union scale means the best workers are carrying the worst. 7. the... Read More


  1. 3
    Quote from SC_RNDude
    This story is so outside the norm, the outlier in other words, it has nothing to do with the issue of non-union vs union hospital.

    And unless they had reason to believe you were in danger, and simply not answering your phone would not qualify, neither your landlord or the police have the right to come into your apartment, especially at the request of your employer. I would have had a serious "chat" with them.

    Ah, i could not agree with you more------a hospital had no right to do this to me!! The hospital was facing more and more nurses NOT answering their phones at 2am, knowing it meant they'd be robbed of their sleep and forced to come in early, as this was routine thing for their employees.
    The hospital then began using the town's police force to go to our homes to rouse us to get us into work. The hospital told me they felt i was not answering my phone on purpose, to avoid being forced into work 4 hours earlier than i was scheduled to do.
    This did not just happen only to ME, it happened to any nurse they felt was not answering her 2am phone call to get to work. It became annoying to the cops themselves, as well, and the cops had attitude when they'd arrive. Grrreat way for the nurse to start the day, eh?

    Again, there was NO emergency, (i've often been called in for actual emergencies, like mass casualties, or blizzards which prevented some employees from arriving, etc, which i do NOT complain at all about, the hospital could not foresee nor plan for such things)
    but
    THIS was a routine that this nonunion hospital did to cover day-to-day census increases---mandating a nurse to come in early/stay late,

    instead risking having "too low" of a nurse/patient ratio by staffing for these for these fairly predictable and routine census increases.


    And if you, SC_RNDude, actually think this is "uinrelated" to not being in union,
    if you truly think this level of crapola could happen at a UNION hospital----- that makes me wonder if you've ever worked in a union hospital?? cuz NO WAY would this nonsense be done to union nurses, nope.

    In 30+ years of nursing, all over the USA, this kinda crapola ONLY happened to me(and the other nurses working at this hospital)
    in NON-UNION hospitals. Yes, this IS related to whether or not one is a union nurse, or just a hapless employee with far less rights and no bargaining power to negotiate out a better scheduling plan, or less intrusive methods of contacting their employees.
    herring_RN, Frank31, and HazelLPN like this.
  2. 6
    Lol, off topic, but, re: //"the hospital should have only sent cops if they thought i was in danger"//,
    listen to this hilarious story. This is like, 20 years ago, long ago, whole other hospital.

    I worked nightshift, and my daughter who was 7, was home. I got off work, made her breakfast, and went to bed. I told her, "Do not wake me up, unless YOU need something. Do not wake me up for phonecalls, no matter who it is, okay? I don't evne care if it is Auntie Anna, just don't wake me up for phone calls." and i set up stuff for her to do, set my buzzer for noon, to get up and check on her.
    not the ideal set up, but, i did what i had to sometimes.

    so i went to bed. Turns out, i had accidentally brought home a set of keys that the hospital needed. The hospital called my home, to get those keys back.
    My daughter answered the phone, and said, "I can't wake up my mom!" and my daughter became flustered at their insistence, so my daughter hung up on them. They called back, and again, my small daughter said, "I CAN'T wake up my mom!" and hung up.

    The hospital, naturally, became alarmed,
    and sent 911 to my house, thinking i was like, dead on the floor or something.

    true story! I was so embarrassed!! but, i could easily see how that time, the hospital WAS trying to be helpful, and if i had been in their shoes, i would have thought the same thing they did, and did the same thing they did!

    hilarious. oh my...
  3. 0
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    Ah, i could not agree with you more------a hospital had no right to do this to me!! The hospital was facing more and more nurses NOT answering their phones at 2am, knowing it meant they'd be robbed of their sleep and forced to come in early, as this was routine thing for their employees.
    The hospital then began using the town's police force to go to our homes to rouse us to get us into work. The hospital told me they felt i was not answering my phone on purpose, to avoid being forced into work 4 hours earlier than i was scheduled to do.
    This did not just happen only to ME, it happened to any nurse they felt was not answering her 2am phone call to get to work. It became annoying to the cops themselves, as well, and the cops had attitude when they'd arrive. Grrreat way for the nurse to start the day, eh?

    Again, there was NO emergency, (i've often been called in for actual emergencies, like mass casualties, or blizzards which prevented some employees from arriving, etc, which i do NOT complain at all about, the hospital could not foresee nor plan for such things)
    but
    THIS was a routine that this nonunion hospital did to cover day-to-day census increases---mandating a nurse to come in early/stay late,

    instead risking having "too low" of a nurse/patient ratio by staffing for these for these fairly predictable and routine census increases.


    And if you, SC_RNDude, actually think this is "uinrelated" to not being in union,
    if you truly think this level of crapola could happen at a UNION hospital----- that makes me wonder if you've ever worked in a union hospital?? cuz NO WAY would this nonsense be done to union nurses, nope.

    In 30+ years of nursing, all over the USA, this kinda crapola ONLY happened to me(and the other nurses working at this hospital)
    in NON-UNION hospitals. Yes, this IS related to whether or not one is a union nurse, or just a hapless employee with far less rights and no bargaining power to negotiate out a better scheduling plan, or less intrusive methods of contacting their employees.
    No, it likely wouldn't happen at a union hospital. My point is, it doesn't happen at non-union hospitals either. Your story is a one in a million (or more). To say non-union hospitals are bad places to work because of the situation you described is ludicrous.

    You are correct, I never have worked at a union hospital. And although not perfect (what workplace is?) I do receive fair pay, and very generous health, time-off, educational, and other benefits. I have a lot of say in my schedule. I have never experienced the extreme adversarial relationship between management and the nurses that you describe. Also, I rountinely don't answer calls from my work, and it usually is a request to come in and work extra shifts. No one has ever said a peep about it.

    What I was trying to say about the cops is that they don't have the right to just come into your home unless they think you are in danger. They have better things to do with their time anyway. Wierd things happen, so I could believe that might have happened to you once. But, now you are saying "The hospital then began using the town's police force to go to our homes to rouse us to get us into work", and that this was a common occurence.

    Nope, don't believe it!
  4. 2
    I think that what Jean Marie may be an outlier , but the point is that in some areas of the country nurses are harrassed by their employers by mandated extra shifts , these shifts are not staffed because the admin. refuses to employ enough nurses to cover the regular number of patients that hospital has ( I understand that emergencies lead to unexpected staffing needs , but here we are talking of regular / frequent mandating of staff ) , these employers tend to be in areas where unions are not active (conclusion drawn , from the many threads , which have touched upon this topic on AL , through the years ).
    HazelLPN and somenurse like this.
  5. 1
    well, SC_rndude,
    you have a right to disbelieve me, but, that doesn't make what i am telling you is untrue. The cops were often called to do what is called "welfare checks" on nurses who were not answering their phones at 2am. But, the cops knew the hospital was in no way worried about that nurse's health, at all, and just wanted the nurse to wake up and call the hospital. The cop who entered my room, even stated, "you have to call your boss."
    Again, i was NOT the only nurse this happened to,
    as the hospital had no way to 'get us' if we didn't answer the phones. The cops often were in the E.R., all the time, and the cops/nurses seemed to sort of see each other as all part of a team of sorts, in public service kinda thing. The nightshift supervisors often interacted with the nightshift cops,
    and yes, this really happened. It might still be happening, what i describe here happened in 2001, not that long ago.

    It's very tempting to post the exact name or even town this hospital is in, to see if any other nurses on ALLNURSES.COM are from that town, to vouch for me,
    but, guess it doesn't matter if my experience is unbelievable to YOU or not. It happened, and might still be going on in that hospital, that IS how they managed the day by day census increases, is mandating nurses in early, or stay later,
    and this all relied on the nurse answering the phone.

    I also suspect, that the hospital rather wanted it known, among their nurses, that if you don't answer the phone, there will be consequences. Most ppl don't want cops coming to their homes to do "welfare checks" (checking on welfare of that person). There *might* have been times, that the supervisors called the cops to do this, and the cops were too busy, coulda happened now and then, i don't know, but, it happened often enough!!
    herring_RN likes this.
  6. 0
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    well, SC_rndude,
    you have a right to disbelieve me, but, that doesn't make what i am telling you is untrue. The cops were often called to do what is called "welfare checks" on nurses who were not answering their phones at 2am. But, the cops knew the hospital was in no way worried about that nurse's health, at all, and just wanted the nurse to wake up and call the hospital. The cop who entered my room, even stated, "you have to call your boss."
    Again, i was NOT the only nurse this happened to,
    as the hospital had no way to 'get us' if we didn't answer the phones. The cops often were in the E.R., all the time, and the cops/nurses seemed to sort of see each other as all part of a team of sorts, in public service kinda thing. The nightshift supervisors often interacted with the nightshift cops,
    and yes, this really happened. It might still be happening, what i describe here happened in 2001, not that long ago.

    It's very tempting to post the exact name or even town this hospital is in, to see if any other nurses on ALLNURSES.COM are from that town, to vouch for me,
    but, guess it doesn't matter if my experience is unbelievable to YOU or not. It happened, and might still be going on in that hospital, that IS how they managed the day by day census increases, is mandating nurses in early, or stay later,
    and this all relied on the nurse answering the phone.

    I also suspect, that the hospital rather wanted it known, among their nurses, that if you don't answer the phone, there will be consequences. Most ppl don't want cops coming to their homes to do "welfare checks" (checking on welfare of that person). There *might* have been times, that the supervisors called the cops to do this, and the cops were too busy, coulda happened now and then, i don't know, but, it happened often enough!!
    You are right in that no one wants cops coming to their homes for welfare checks, unless of course it is for good reason. And, it is against the law for one to come into your home without permission or a reason to believe someone inside is in danger.

    No, it's not still going on 10 years later. Someone in that time would have had the brains to not put up with that. If the cops were part of this to the extent you say, one call to the ACLU would have snuffed that out in a heartbeat.
  7. 0
    Quote from nicurn001
    I think that what Jean Marie may be an outlier , but the point is that in some areas of the country nurses are harrassed by their employers by mandated extra shifts , these shifts are not staffed because the admin. refuses to employ enough nurses to cover the regular number of patients that hospital has ( I understand that emergencies lead to unexpected staffing needs , but here we are talking of regular / frequent mandating of staff ) , these employers tend to be in areas where unions are not active (conclusion drawn , from the many threads , which have touched upon this topic on AL , through the years ).
    I understand and don't necessarily disagree with that point, although I have never been in a union and seem to have worked in places better then many union places I hear of.

    Anyway, I have a legal background prior to nursing, and I couldn't get my head wrapped around that cop story. I had to know more!
  8. 1
    //"No, it's not still going on 10 years later."//


    I am not as sure as you are. This had been going on for years prior to it happening to ME. This was NOT a one-time thing, at all.

    This hospital fired nurses at the drop of a hat, as there is a nursing glut in the area, with no less than six (6) nursing schools in this area, all cranking out 100s of cheap new nurses all vying for a job, and this IS the ONLY hospital in this town, which is surrounded by countryside for an hour in most every direction. This hosp had no competition, so far as nursing jobs go.

    The nurse that the ACLU was quoting, would be fired, battaboom. They'd have to have specific examples of events they felt were an abuse of the employee.

    I am not sure the ACLU could object if a hospital said,
    that each and every time they sent cops to a nurses home that the hosp had a concern about that nurse not answering her phone at 2am. No way to prove it, i don't think.

    mind you, usually the cops merely knock on the nurse's door til she answers it, but, in this case, the apt manager let the cop into my apt, and the cop may have been in a hurry, didn't want to be standing out there, i have no idea whose idea it was to have manager not only open the outer door, but also my apt door as well. i doubt the hospital was involved in THAT decision to have apt manager open up my apt door, i really don't think so. My guess is, THAT decision, was between the cop and the apt manager, NOT the hospital.
    My opinion is,
    that the hospital's only role in this, was,
    to send out cops to knock on my door.

    not to open the door.

    I am not sure THAT is "illegal" really. Honestly, i could probably call up the cops right now, and tell them anyone's name, and ask them to go check on that person. I don't think that is "illegal", really.

    There might be a legal basis for a hospital to require add'l nurses, which exempts them from mandating, from requiring that the nurse be contacted.
    who knows? not sure, not sure, if a hospital has a legal right to send out for employees, if the hospital stated it was "an emergency".
    there was NO "emergency", just the usual ebb and flow of the patient census.
    No Stars In My Eyes likes this.
  9. 1
    slightly off topic, but, once in a blizzard on Cape Cod, the Cape Cod hospital sent the National Guard out to pick up nurses to come in for next shift, as we were all snowed in beyond words. But, i knew the Nat'l Guard was coming to drive me to work, though, it WAS my scheduled shift.
    When i called to say i could not even get out of my driveway, let alone down my street, the hospital said they'd add to me to "pick up list".

    Was kinda fun, actually, whole bunch of us all in the back of a deuce and a half truck, on our way to work, kinda like a school bus! ha ha!!

    on the downside, no one had told us, we would NOT get rides back HOME again, so we all ended up staying there for 3 days !! That was kinda fun, though, and that is when i learned, that if you use the liquid soap that comes in enema packs to wash your hair, it really shines!! It was kinda like a slumber party, all of us nurses crammed into one room to sleep, ha ha, kinda funny.
    we did work some long long hours, though, just dividing ourselves up into who would work which shift. We did not mind, though, was good morale among us, as we KNEW that WAS an actual emergency.


    edit, i am not sure, if some nurses may have been driven home again, that is possible, but, none of the ones i knew got rides back home again, but, none of us strongly objected, either. Perhaps, if a nurse said she HAD TO get back to her home, maybe that nurse would have been driven home again, i don't know. In fact, i bet they probably even asked us, if we could just stay on, in this emergency, if that would work out for us? but, i can't recall, but, probably they did ask us.
    Last edit by somenurse on Nov 26, '12
    No Stars In My Eyes likes this.
  10. 0
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    //"No, it's not still going on 10 years later."//


    I am not as sure as you are. This had been going on for years prior to it happening to ME. This was NOT a one-time thing, at all.

    This hospital fired nurses at the drop of a hat, as there is a nursing glut in the area, with no less than six (6) nursing schools in this area, all cranking out 100s of cheap new nurses all vying for a job, and this IS the ONLY hospital in this town, which is surrounded by countryside for an hour in most every direction. This hosp had no competition, so far as nursing jobs go.

    The nurse that the ACLU was quoting, would be fired, battaboom. They'd have to have specific examples of events they felt were an abuse of the employee.

    I am not sure the ACLU could object if a hospital said,
    that each and every time they sent cops to a nurses home that the hosp had a concern about that nurse not answering her phone at 2am. No way to prove it, i don't think.

    mind you, usually the cops merely knock on the nurse's door til she answers it, but, in this case, the apt manager let the cop into my apt, and the cop may have been in a hurry, didn't want to be standing out there, i have no idea whose idea it was to have manager not only open the outer door, but also my apt door as well. i doubt the hospital was involved in THAT decision to have apt manager open up my apt door, i really don't think so. My guess is, THAT decision, was between the cop and the apt manager, NOT the hospital.
    My opinion is,
    that the hospital's only role in this, was,
    to send out cops to knock on my door.

    not to open the door.

    I am not sure THAT is "illegal" really. Honestly, i could probably call up the cops right now, and tell them anyone's name, and ask them to go check on that person. I don't think that is "illegal", really.

    There might be a legal basis for a hospital to require add'l nurses, which exempts them from mandating, from requiring that the nurse be contacted.
    who knows? not sure, not sure, if a hospital has a legal right to send out for employees, if the hospital stated it was "an emergency".
    there was NO "emergency", just the usual ebb and flow of the patient census.
    Yes, the police will check on someone if you asked. And they will also ask you a few questions like "why?", and "when is the last time anyone has heard from them?"

    I'm leaving the hospital out of it. The ACLU will ask the police why they are going to people's houses in the middle of the night when they know nothing is wrong. There isn't anything to "prove", unless the police for some reason start lying. The ACLU will suggest they stop this behaviour or they may have a lawsuit to deal with.

    I said it was illegal for a cop to enter your home (unless again, they have reason to believe you are in some sort of danger), not come to your home.

    Anyway, it doen't even have to get to the ACLU.

    The cops come, you ask why, they tell you. You tell them you don't want them coming over at the request of your employer unless you don't call or show up for your shift, if at all. Problem is likely solved. If not, next time talk to a police supervisor. Next, the chief. Next, you call the mayor's office and let them know whats going on. This problem is easily solved.

    One town with one hospital at least an hour away from another town. And there are 6 nursing schools in the area. Wow!

    Where is this place?


Top