Professionals or "workers" - page 5

by blackribbon 11,554 Views | 97 Comments

I am attending nursing school in Michigan, a very "union" state. I have recently moved here from Texas, a right to work state. There is a big political issue going on here about Right-to-work. And until people started posting... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from sapphire18
    This is news to me. Everywhere I've worked PAs are midlevel providers just like NPs.
    *** Yes they are, even those with associates degree.
  2. 0
    Quote from HouTx
    My primary disagreement with organized labor is the insistence on job tenure as the end-all & be-all. Nurses with higher levels of experience are always given preference, with very little attention to the quality or quantity of their work.
    *** That is absolutly not the case for the union hospital where I work. Maybe not all unions are the same.
  3. 0
    Quote from Ruby Vee
    The OP used some pretty inflammatory language against unions. That is not indicative of someone who is confused or is welcoming of dissenting opinions or advice. That is indicative of someone who lacks manners.
    Im thinking Im not understanding OP's post then. I admit I was wrong. Im pleading ignorance. I guess I dont get it, so Ill leave the topic alone. In my defense on another note, I did point out that I realized I didnt quote what I was referring to and corrected that. Anyway, like I said, I apparently misunderstood the thread from the beginning. Sorry
  4. 7
    It shouldn't matter if you are a professional or not, if you work under management of any kind or as an employee, a union is probably always a good idea.

    It doesn't matter how knowlegable, educated or skilled you are, if you do not own the means of production or have extensive capital, you have little power without a collective voice.

    Some professionals, like physicans, may have enough power on their own because many have specific skill sets that take tons of money and time to aquire. They are not easily replaceable. But alas, nurses are easy to replace these days.

    I'm sure the powers that be are very happy to know that some think that unions are demeaning and only for the weak. That serves their agenda well, especially when it comes to exploitation.
    Last edit by alotusforyou on Dec 12, '12
    Ruby Vee, KelRN215, wooh, and 4 others like this.
  5. 3
    I have never heard of a "profession" as against higher education as nurses. It makes a lot of sense that someone with a 2-year degree can write orders, examine patients and document progress notes, H&Ps, and discharge summaries of critically ill patients while the 5-year degree-prepared nurse is following/carrying out those orders; basically working BELOW someone with less than half the education than they have. All I can say is...SMH.
    kabfighter, anotherone, and wooh like this.
  6. 5
    I've worked in Alaska which is unionized and now I live in Texas which is not. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of work conditions and compensation directly related to the nursing union. Not all professions need a union but nursing is certainly one that can benefit from it. Keeping nurse patient ratios to a manageable level is just one benefit not just for the nurse but also for the safety of patients we care for. The nursing union in Alaska assisted with lay offs, retraining if you were unable to perform your job anymore, negotiations for benefits, etc. It was a lot easier to actually be at the bedside nursing like we were trained to do because lower patient ratios and extra support staff etc. If someone feels it "demeans" the profession I don't really care because I know it keeps my patients safer and me at their bedside. Which is what I went to nursing school to do.
    wooh, nursel56, multi10, and 2 others like this.
  7. 0
    Quote from sapphire18
    I have never heard of a "profession" as against higher education as nurses. It makes a lot of sense that someone with a 2-year degree can write orders, examine patients and document progress notes, H&Ps, and discharge summaries of critically ill patients while the 5-year degree-prepared nurse is following/carrying out those orders; basically working BELOW someone with less than half the education than they have. All I can say is...SMH.
    *** Seems perfecly normal and right to me. I don't give a darn for the degree. To me what matters is what you know, not how you came to know it. Before I got my BSN I used to regularly precept nurse residents who had MSNs. Sure they had 6 years of "education" vs my 2 years (actually 9 months but it's a two year degree). They were still wet behind the ears know nothing brand new grads who needed to learn basic nursing skills from me. Does that seem wrong to you? Would it be better if the brand new graduate of a direct entry MSN program was supposed to precept the ADN RN with 10+ years of ICU experience? After all the new grad has 6 years of "education" (never mind that the first 4 years could have been in music) vs the experienced nurses 2 years?
    The associates degree PA and the BSN RN both spent about the same amount of time in school learning their trades.
  8. 0
    Quote from sapphire18
    I have never heard of a "profession" as against higher education as nurses. It makes a lot of sense that someone with a 2-year degree can write orders, examine patients and document progress notes, H&Ps, and discharge summaries of critically ill patients while the 5-year degree-prepared nurse is following/carrying out those orders; basically working BELOW someone with less than half the education than they have. All I can say is...SMH.
    The issue is that for the most part, hospitals, state governments and the general public have not felt any type of urgency in the last 47 years to either separate RNs by scope, change the licensing exam or sound the alarm that the public is endangered being cared for by a mostly ADN workforce. That's not an insignificant factor.

    The major nurse lobbying groups have successfully framed the argument as either for or against higher education in general. There are many avenues that nurses can and do take to educate themselves every day, both informal (personal initiative and professionalism) and formal, like certifications. Once you are out the door with your degree, you're fighting it's obsolescence. Some nurses, regardless of degree, are lifelong learners and some put the degree on the shelf and do as little as possible to grow beyond that. Additionally, the further education a practicing RN may pursue is usually focused on her practice area, while the gen ed and other courses in a typical BSN course have little effect on their current practice, especially after they've been out of school for a while and know what they need to know more about.

    as to the topic: I used to be against unions. Now I am 100% for them, despite some misgivings. Wages and benefits have deteriorated massively since healthcare became primarily a profit-driven corporate machine. In short, they can't be trusted.
    Last edit by nursel56 on Dec 12, '12
  9. 1
    I didn't realize unions were such a touchy subject. Why so much emotion?
    This would make an interesting topic of research-comparing nurses who work in union workplaces and nurses who work in right-to-work.
    I have only known right-to-work.
    anotherone likes this.
  10. 0
    Quote from sapphire18
    I have never heard of a "profession" as against higher education as nurses.
    *** B.S.! I have never heard any nurse say they are aginst higher education. I sure as heck am not, I have not read any anti higher education message here on AN. If you have please provide a quote.
    That said the fact is that higher education traditionaly has not been rewarded in nursing. Only very recently has there been any incentive at all and that incentive prety much disappears as soon as an RN gets her first job.


Top