New national nurses union forms - page 17

by herring_RN Guide | 28,702 Views | 198 Comments

A new national union of up to 154,000 registered nurses was created in Phoenix today, replacing one of the most aggressive nurse unions in the industry and combining its membership with two other nurse-only labor groups to form... Read More


  1. 4
    Quote from eclectic1
    additionally everyone needs to realize that those at the top of management have contracts! yes contracts, just like the ones that they seek to deny the workers! also they join together in groups--unionize if you will-- but they call it the chamber of commerce or various lobbying groups, and they hire some folks to post on web-sites (like this one) acting all concerned (aka concern trolls). too often they use their collective strength against the workforce long before any individual can act. ceo’s get bonuses not just for promoting the long-term success, but for short term profits! profits that are too often realized from borrowing against assets, breaking companies apart, and then bankrupting. there are more accounting scams than can be noted here, but the bottom line is the only way we defend ourselves as a middleclass is through the democratic process of organizing. friends, there might have been a more innocent time when we could just trust in the goodwill of strangers like blanche dubois, but today too many companies profit through tricks and traps, many of which you never see until it is too late. we’ve all seen it happen to others. it takes a huge dose of cognitive dissonance to ignore the possibility of being their next victim.
    one might also note that hospitals have a specific union of their own: the american hospital assn. and its various state affiliates. they pay 10s of thousands a year in dues to belong because they realize that they are stronger and their voice is more effective when they speak as a group than as individuals.
    Heogog53, Jerry 75, Eclectic1, and 1 other like this.
  2. 5
    Quote from schroeders_piano
    I've read all the posts on here and I find it funny that some who are in support of unions have decried the fact that CEOs are making thousands of dollars at the worker's expense. Yet, these same people are not crying out at the fact that union leaders are making thousands of dollars as well.

    I am not a union supporter. There will be no Norma Rae moment for me where I jump up on the nurse's station and hold sign saying "union". The reason I am not a union supporter is because I have seen the bad side of being a union member.

    I am also not a union supporter because many times unions become too political. Instead of spending time and resources on it's union members, many unions are focusing in on supporting politicians and legislation. I can't be a part of something that may support a politician or a piece of legislation that I don't agree with.

    Some have used the UAW and the auto industry as examples in support of and against unions. Although the collapse of the auto industry cannot solely be placed on the UAW, the UAW shares part of the blame. At a time when the auto industry needed the union to be flexible, the UAW was unwilling to bend.

    Start the flaming now.
    Just a few points here:
    1. The salaries of union leaders are trivial compared to those of hospital CEOs and even more trivial compared to health insurance CEOs. As I've mentioned before, the Executive Director of the largest individual union makes a salary about 1/3 that of the CEO at the smallish hospital where I work. The CEOs of big city hospitals make far more and the leaders of hospital chains like Tenet and HCA astronomically more.

    2. Every single facet of our practice is controlled by the political process: How many nursing schools exist, what standards you have to meet to be licensed, what your scope of practice is, who else can do jobs traditionally done by nurses, how much money is available to pay you, whether your patients have health insurance or not, whether you are entitled to a break or not, whether you are entitled to overtime pay or not, whether your hospital can force you to work overtime against your will, how many patients you have to care for - and on and on. ALL of those are controlled either by elected officials or by people appointed by elected officials. A union representing nurses that did not involve itself in politics would be guilty of the grossest malpractice. Do you actually believe we should just allow all those things to be decided by others, without our union playing a role? And the only way for a union to have an effective voice in those issues is to support candidates who support our position on those issues and oppose candidates who oppose our position.
    In my experience, people who say that unions are too political don't really mean that, they mean that unions support candidates they don't agree with. Usually, they are Republicans upset that unions usually support Democrats. I tend to think that unions are too closely allied with the Democratic party, and I wish there were Republicans we could support. In past times, there used to be. But today's Republican office holders take anti-worker positions 100% of the time, so it's hard to find one you can support. Here in California, Republican opposition to the right of a worker to have a lunch break is unanimous. Their opposition to the staffing ratio law was unanimous. Their opposition to whistle-blower protection law was unanimous. Makes it tough to find Republicans you can support.
    CMCRN, Altra, lindarn, and 2 others like this.
  3. 4
    Quote from PICUPNP
    PS- If they were ever to organize in Texas, the unions would be giving handouts because we, Texans, wouldn't be obligated to pay the ridiculous dues that those in forced unionism states have to pay.
    There you go again with your forced unionism , I think you are :deadhorse on that point . I will simply refer you and other followers of this thread to contributions 143 and 145 , earlier in the thread .
    CMCRN, lindarn, karenchad, and 1 other like this.
  4. 5
    picupnp :

    you need to read the thread about the nurses in texas who have been victimized by wealthy doctors whose substandard work was reported by the nurses, who were then fired!

    a union's lawyers would have that one handled in a "new york" minute (where unions have strength, incidently) with only the dues as your cost. their lawyers are very experienced in court fights about that kind of thing. you can never tell when you'll need that!
    Heogog53, Eclectic1, lindarn, and 2 others like this.
  5. 7
    Quote from PICUPNP
    I'm not looking for a handout because there is nothing that the unions have or provide that I would want.

    So, then ... you'll never file for workman's comp or take a vacation. I'll bet you refuse pay for time out sick. And would work 72 hours a week (six 12's ... the standard work week before unions forced a 40-hour week on workers)if your employer demanded it, for NO extra pay.

    If you answered "no" to any of these, then you're a hypocrite with an agenda that has nothing to do with "democracy" and everything to do with aligning yourself with what you think is the winning side in order to feather your own nest while you leave your coworkers hanging.

    If you collect sick pay, take a vacation or work in a physically safe environment, then you are taking a handout of benefits pioneered by unions.

    The only reason these benefits exist in non-union shops is because they had to compete in the past with unionized companies for workers. Now they are so standard that we've forgotten where they came from. Read your historyl

    And you still haven't explained why Group One and the AHA are perfectly OK, but unions are an abomination.

    But I don't think you ever will.
    Last edit by heron on Dec 31, '09
    CMCRN, Heogog53, lamazeteacher, and 4 others like this.
  6. 3
    Quote from Chico David RN
    Just a few points here:
    1. The salaries of union leaders are trivial compared to those of hospital CEOs and even more trivial compared to health insurance CEOs. As I've mentioned before, the Executive Director of the largest individual union makes a salary about 1/3 that of the CEO at the smallish hospital where I work. The CEOs of big city hospitals make far more and the leaders of hospital chains like Tenet and HCA astronomically more.

    2. Every single facet of our practice is controlled by the political process: How many nursing schools exist, what standards you have to meet to be licensed, what your scope of practice is, who else can do jobs traditionally done by nurses, how much money is available to pay you, whether your patients have health insurance or not, whether you are entitled to a break or not, whether you are entitled to overtime pay or not, whether your hospital can force you to work overtime against your will, how many patients you have to care for - and on and on. ALL of those are controlled either by elected officials or by people appointed by elected officials. A union representing nurses that did not involve itself in politics would be guilty of the grossest malpractice. Do you actually believe we should just allow all those things to be decided by others, without our union playing a role? And the only way for a union to have an effective voice in those issues is to support candidates who support our position on those issues and oppose candidates who oppose our position.
    In my experience, people who say that unions are too political don't really mean that, they mean that unions support candidates they don't agree with. Usually, they are Republicans upset that unions usually support Democrats. I tend to think that unions are too closely allied with the Democratic party, and I wish there were Republicans we could support. In past times, there used to be. But today's Republican office holders take anti-worker positions 100% of the time, so it's hard to find one you can support. Here in California, Republican opposition to the right of a worker to have a lunch break is unanimous. Their opposition to the staffing ratio law was unanimous. Their opposition to whistle-blower protection law was unanimous. Makes it tough to find Republicans you can support.

    Exactly Sir.
    It's as if the those who oppose our right to organize have a terminal case of cognitive dissonance. They decry a Union and its 'handouts" while enjoying many of the benefits that were paid for with the blood and sweat of braver folk. It seems they are completely willing to dismiss the organizations that rally against them---driving us in a race to the bottom. From the John Bircher's seeing communists in any group to the Federalist Society fighting to limit your ability to litigate in court (notice how often we as a society are limited by binding arbitration today), and more AstroTurf organizations pretending to be grass-roots than I can name. Point is they ALWAYS advocate to limit the rights of the middle-class but never their own. Corporations use the vast majority of the judiciary but only limit and cap awards of the type brought by workers and consumers, never going near or limiting avenues that might effect their own interests. They stand in line and are granted socialized benefits when disaster strikes, but call the worst of names and accusation when like benefit goes to workers. They take socialized insurances like federal flood, disaster, and guarantees, while checking your access to similar.
    Corporations are a legal construct that affords them protections and advantages that fill books, is it really asking too much for the tools and vigilance needed to balance their power? Initially the founders limited their lifespan to 20 years, and mandated their existence link to a public good. they couldn't be politically active. They are not people and should not have the rights of Americans. But they do--and more.
    Additionally please realize that more and more we are being bought up by foreign entities. I mean come-on.... I realize some think the company store is run by the nice man down the block who has your best interests in mind, but even the most conservative among us must see that as a working society you do not want to be at the mercy of those who actually want to profit at your expense. We are no longer in a fair free market. We are dominated by entities that profit off of the American people through a series of TRICKS and TRAPS.
    One definition of a third third world country is where raw resources are exported to be finished elsewhere. Unfortunately this is the situation we now find ourselves in. Your wallet is being besieged on many fronts and in ways that the majority will never see coming until it is too late. Your future is being mined and the raw product refined into another's profits. Organizing is only one of the few ways that we protect ourselves, our families and communities. Don't give up your rights willingly! Fact is, besides war and famine, it's the only way a middle-class arises and survives.
    I'm amazed by people who claim to love America but clearly hate Americans-- who by there own statements would never support the Bill of Rights were it put to a vote; but claim to be Constitutionalists-- and deride others as immoral, but forget Sermon on the Mount.
    For our mutual prosperity, I wish all a Happy New year!!
    lindarn, heron, and Chico David RN like this.
  7. 0
    Could someone please tell me who/how to contact someone for info on starting a union? We are more than fed up, & really need some good information...we really don't know where to start. Does the NNU go to every state? Thanks. Feel free to pm if you would rather reply that way.
  8. 0
    Quote from heron
    so, then ... you'll never file for workman's comp or take a vacation. i'll bet you refuse pay for time out sick. and would work 72 hours a week (six 12's ... the standard work week before unions forced a 40-hour week on workers)if your employer demanded it, for no extra pay.

    if you answered "no" to any of these, then you're a hypocrite with an agenda that has nothing to do with "democracy" and everything to do with aligning yourself with what you think is the winning side in order to feather your own nest while you leave your coworkers hanging.

    if you collect sick pay, take a vacation or work in a physically safe environment, then you are taking a handout of benefits pioneered by unions.

    the only reason these benefits exist in non-union shops is because they had to compete in the past with unionized companies for workers. now they are so standard that we've forgotten where they came from. read your historyl

    and you still haven't explained why group one and the aha are perfectly ok, but unions are an abomination.

    but i don't think you ever will.
    why in the world do i have to explain why group one is anything? i've said in a prior post that i didn't agree with what they did but am powerless to shut down an fcra reporting institution. i'm sure that the mighty union could shut them down! what is that aha?? american heart assoc.??
    sure, i don't mind benefiting from acquisitions from days gone by and i've never said that i oppose patient ratios, but i do oppose going on strike, forced unionism aka close shops, and paying dues so that someone in a union organization can make $200k yrly. i'm glad to live where i can choose for myself to join the union and pay dues if they come to my institution. being forced to pay for the priviledge of working anywhere will always be at the top of my list to fight against!

    fight forced unionism
  9. 2
    OK PICUPNP , lets try this hypothetical . If you were a nurse who was Right to Life /anti abortion supporter who was wanting to work at a hospital which had a policy that NO nurse could exempt themselves from participating in assisting , in some manner abortions . You would probably talk of being a FORCED ABORTIONIST and participate in all actions you could to change this because , it would indeed be forced as you had no input into the decision .I would support you in your right to protest this and would not protest your use of the Phrase FORCED ABORTIONIST.

    While whatever size of FONT , or use of UPPPER CASE in talking of forced unionism , you cannot get around the simple fact ,that no closed shop can be formed without the union being voted democratically into a facillity , you are simply & :deadhorse to say otherwise .Obviously from your response to this very simple fact you DO NOT believe in Democracy or that nurses at a facility who are knowledgable , intelligent and professional could possibly come to the decision to vote for a union , in the knowledge that they would have to pay dues in the future when the closed shp came into being .Unfortunately for you this sometimes happens . Unfortunately from my view point it doesn't always happen .
    Heogog53 and Chico David RN like this.
  10. 2
    its still forced unionism when nurses are forced to join the union and pay dues to be employed. if being against forced unionism means i'm against democracy then so be it.

    rns against forced unionism

    schroeders_piano and tulip928 like this.


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