Wow. Louisiana Legislature Votes To Ban AA's - page 3

Now the bill goes to the governor. (P.S. Obviously I was wrong on the legislative issues. I guess Florida wasn't a bellwether decision afterall. Congrats to CRNA's on this one.) ;)... Read More

  1. by   gaspassah
    I don't understand your argument. You are saying that they can't afford MDAs and AAs? That doesn't make any sense
    dog, the quote i made was from the rural hosptial association memo.
    see here.
    http://69.2.40.145/LANA/Admin/Upload...spitalMemo.pdf

    my argument was basic. if you cant pay a mda or crna then get an aa.

    my followup was it wouldnt seem practical to get an aa because they require "supervision", this supervision requires an mda, for the mda to take on the added responsibility then the hospital again would have to pay.

    the key to increasing the providers sounds good if you could take them off a shelf and throw them into service. however louisiana has a poor reputation for being a good state to live *(however i love it, next best thing to mississippi)* this keeps providers from out of state ie texas etc from moving there. pay is fairly equal across the country, and to lure them to la you have to {pay more money}

    so it is up to the state schools to increase their graduation rates.
    again another big problem today is qualified instructors that want to teach anesthesia, or nursing in general. the funding is lacking in this area.
    thusly, instead of states and the a$a attempting to implement a provider that will not save money in the long run, start school for providers that cant work independantly, try to pass legislation to get them rights, they should work with crna's to fund schools to increase the independant provider.

    it's been shown that healthcare worker that graduate in their home state usually will stay there. (i read this somewhere i think). graduate crna's from louisiana, they stay in la, work in la, will fill jobs in rural la. many providers = dogs argument of lower pay for more providers.
  2. by   jwk
    Quote from lizz
    Not necessarily the case in D.C. CRNA's argue that the medical board acted without legislative authority, i.e. illegally. That's why the issue is now before the city council.

    And, if AA's have been operating in Michgan legally for years, why isn't Michigan on the ASA's list? If it was true, you'd think your own people would include it.

    Surgery is being cancelled across DC for lack of anesthesia, but by God we can't have AA's doing what they've been trained to do, right?

    I don't work for the ASA. They are not my "own people".
  3. by   Sheri257
    Quote from jwk
    Surgery is being cancelled across DC for lack of anesthesia, but by God we can't have AA's doing what they've been trained to do, right?

    I don't work for the ASA. They are not my "own people".
    There are only 4-5 AA's working in D.C. right now. So, I doubt it would make much of a dent with the shortage anyway, at least in the short term.

    That's not the point. People cannot make up their own rules without legislative authority. That's the issue in D.C.

    And, CRNAs are not trying to get rid of AA's in D.C. They're only trying to increase AA training.

    The bottom line is: If the ASA doesn't list Michigan as an AA state, then you're probably wrong. Of course, you wouldn't want to admit that.

    :chuckle
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jun 12, '04
  4. by   jwk
    Quote from lizz
    There are only 4-5 AA's working in D.C. right now. So, I doubt it would make much of a dent with the shortage anyway, at least in the short term.

    That's not the point. People cannot make up their own rules without legislative authority. That's the issue in D.C.

    And, CRNAs are not trying to get rid of AA's in this case. They're only trying to increase AA training.

    The bottom line is: If the ASA doesn't list Michigan as an AA state, then you're probably wrong. Of course, you wouldn't want to admit that.

    :chuckle
    I have friends who are AA's working in Michigan. End of that discussion.

    As for the CRNA's trying to get us to increase are training, that's a smokescreen and you know it. You want us out, period.

    Just curious - we have several RN's that are AA's. Are they the scum of the earth like the rest of us AA's?
  5. by   Sheri257
    Quote from jwk
    I have friends who are AA's working in Michigan. End of that discussion.
    I don't think you're "scum." That's ridiculous. I just think it would be more useful if you could actually back up your statements with documentation or something else besides "I have friends," since your claims do seem to contradict the ASA in this case.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jun 12, '04
  6. by   gaspassah
    i dont have as much a problem with aa's that were nurses as much as i have with those aa's that get in as english majors. at least the rns have had training and experience in dealing with patients. the problem i do have is why they didnt support nurse anesthesia instead.
    you yourself jwk i think you stated you were a corpman in the navy or something. that means you had dealings with trauma and casualty patients. that is more than the english major that never touched a patient and now is in a position of maintaining patients hemodynamics.
    if there are going to be aa's then they should be trained prior to anesthesia training in patient care. ie a pa or some other designation.
    d
  7. by   user69
    JWK,
    How many people in your class of AAs were English majors? And how many of the English majors out there have all of the pre-med coursework needed to get into one of the AA programs?





    Are there any CRNAs that are practicing today that do not have a collage degree from undergrad and then a full masters on top of that? If there are any, should they be forced to stop practicing until they complete both degrees?
  8. by   CRNA, DNSc
    Quote from jwk
    They ARE working in Michigan, legally, and have been for years. YOU may not recognize them, but that's your problem.
    I never said they weren't practicing in Michigan- only that they are practicing delegated medical functions. AA are not a recognized entity under the Michigan Public Health Code, they are not licensed in the State of Michigan (as I am sure your friends can tell you) and thats the end of that!
  9. by   jwk
    Quote from user69
    JWK,
    How many people in your class of AAs were English majors? And how many of the English majors out there have all of the pre-med coursework needed to get into one of the AA programs?

    Are there any CRNAs that are practicing today that do not have a collage degree from undergrad and then a full masters on top of that? If there are any, should they be forced to stop practicing until they complete both degrees?
    None in my class were English majors - my class was composed entirely of people with science or healthcare degrees, including nursing and respiratory therapy. There were exactly zero in my class with no healthcare experience, although yes, that is not a requirement for admission. We had respiratory therapists, one nurse, and several experienced paramedics.

    Although possible, it is highly unlikely that a non-science major would get into an AA program for the same reason that a non-science major would have a very hard time getting into medical school. They simply would not have the pre-requisite coursework that is necessary. Most English majors aren't going to take a full year of physics, biochem, organic chemistry, etc., that are needed for this program.

    For your second set of questions - there are thousands upon thousands of CRNA's in practice who do not have any degree at all, unless they earned if after their anesthesia training. Two year ADN or three year diploma, plus a two year nurse anesthesia program was all it took in the not too distant past. In fact, both the requirement for a BSN and the year of critical care experience are relatively recent developments for CRNA education. Should they stop practicing if they don't have the degrees? Of course not. Experience is the best teacher.
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from jwk
    Although possible, it is highly unlikely that a non-science major would get into an AA program for the same reason that a non-science major would have a very hard time getting into medical school.
    Actually, according to this Emory document, the number of non-science majors ranges from 10 to 25 percent in the last five years, depending on the class.

    About 17 percent overall ...

    There aren't any English majors, but there are Liberal Arts, Psychology, Business and Education majors.

    http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/MED/ANESTH...tatistics.html

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jun 13, '04
  11. by   gaspassah
    even if they do have a science degree, how many critical patients have they taken care of?
  12. by   TennRN2004
    WOW! You know I agree completely from what I know of AA's (admittedly not a huge amt) that CRNA's have better education, are better prepared to be safe anesthesia providers. But I guess what really is the most significant thing to me about the bill is the fact that when we as a nursing profession pull together- look what we can acomplish. Asserting ourselves as nurses and our profession of nursing as a unique and necessary part of the healthcare system is vital to keeping nursing strong. In the Louisiana bill, CRNAs are the preferred providers for anesthesia. I think that is AWESOME! It speaks a lot to how much respect is earned once you get thru the hell of CNRA school.
  13. by   skipaway
    Today, the Gov. of Louisiana signed this bill into law.

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