Who should "Pass Gas"? - page 2

let's not create another new healthcare worker position! fla anesthesia assistants gain ground in senate over nurses' objections by mike salinero msalinero@tampatrib.com tallahassee - a... Read More

  1. by   jwk
    Quote from wtbcrna

    Survey on public opinion of AAs...
    http://www.scienceblog.com/community...0/pub0888.html
    Geez, lets at least be honest and consider the source here - the AANA is hardly unbiased, and the questions asked were incredibly leading (or misleading as is usually the case with the AANA).

    Kinda like those garbage studies over the last couple years looking at OB anesthesia and CRNA's.
  2. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from jwk
    Geez, lets at least be honest and consider the source here - the AANA is hardly unbiased, and the questions asked were incredibly leading (or misleading as is usually the case with the AANA).

    Kinda like those garbage studies over the last couple years looking at OB anesthesia and CRNA's.

    Yep, if ain't in favor of AA's or MDAs it has to be garbage.....You are on nursing website by the way if you didn't forget. So if these studies are so flawed why don't you post the ASA reponse to how they are flawed or something that is little more substantial other than it has biased because it comes from the AANA.

    Everything that comes out about CRNAs from the ASA is biased towards anesthesiologists....that is their professional organization so you expect it to be biased. So why would you not expect some bias from the professional organization for CRNAs? It hardly means that their studies are flawed just because you don't agree with them.
  3. by   foraneman
    Allizar revives a 7 year old post under the pretense of asking a career choice question, but in fact writes a lengthy political statement, interjects opinions which are supposedly from someone with no health care experience. What is the question exactly?
  4. by   sewnew
    Quote from Allizar
    I realize that BSN's usually have at least 1 year experience in a critical care setting before attending a CRNA program (Just as AA's usually come from a very strong medical background), however while caring for sickly elders or working with babies in NICU is amazing and respectable work, I do not believe it should be a prerequisite or considered training directly towards administering anesthesia.
    Just for the record, the ICU requirement for CRNA school is typically in a cardiovascular or surgical ICU. The NICU is usually NOT the unit where prospective CRNAs gain their clinical experience. Additionally, the MINIMUM requirement is 1 year. Most CRNA schools prefer 2-3 years in the ICU.
  5. by   jwk
    Quote from sewnew
    Just for the record, the ICU requirement for CRNA school is typically in a cardiovascular or surgical ICU. The NICU is usually NOT the unit where prospective CRNAs gain their clinical experience. Additionally, the MINIMUM requirement is 1 year. Most CRNA schools prefer 2-3 years in the ICU.
    Just for the record, the requirement is for at minimum of 1 year of critical care experience, but each school may determine what constitutes "critical care" for their program. Depending on the program, it can be ER, NICU, or even PACU, in addition to the typical SICU/CCU, etc. And although many schools may prefer 2-3 years in the ICU, the minimum is indeed one year, and I know a number of CRNA's that were accepted to several different CRNA programs prior to their completing that one year, with the proviso that they complete that year prior to their starting their anesthesia program.
  6. by   sewnew
    Quote from jwk
    Just for the record, the requirement is for at minimum of 1 year of critical care experience, but each school may determine what constitutes "critical care" for their program. Depending on the program, it can be ER, NICU, or even PACU, in addition to the typical SICU/CCU, etc. And although many schools may prefer 2-3 years in the ICU, the minimum is indeed one year, and I know a number of CRNA's that were accepted to several different CRNA programs prior to their completing that one year, with the proviso that they complete that year prior to their starting their anesthesia program.
    Please note that I wrote the words typically and minimum. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule.
  7. by   PostOpPrincess
    I will NEVER allow an AA around my family members; having been around CRNAS and MDs oh say, 18 years in the nursing field and a future CRNA.

    NO WAY. There are SO MANY INTRICACIES that an AA with NO PREVIOUS MEDICAL BACKGROUND can EVER see......I see PAs now running around who have NO CLUE....

    Again, NO WAY....
  8. by   jwk
    Quote from JoPACURN
    I will NEVER allow an AA around my family members; having been around CRNAS and MDs oh say, 18 years in the nursing field and a future CRNA.

    NO WAY. There are SO MANY INTRICACIES that an AA with NO PREVIOUS MEDICAL BACKGROUND can EVER see......I see PAs now running around who have NO CLUE....

    Again, NO WAY....
    Nice emotional response - and of course totally biased towards nursing - that's fine, considering you're a nurse. But all of us see clueless folks out there, and I see plenty of clueless nurses and NP's, as well as all other types of medical or nursing providers you'd like to list.

    Did you know many thousands of practicing CRNA's have NO degree whatsoever?
  9. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from jwk
    Nice emotional response - and of course totally biased towards nursing - that's fine, considering you're a nurse. But all of us see clueless folks out there, and I see plenty of clueless nurses and NP's, as well as all other types of medical or nursing providers you'd like to list.

    Did you know many thousands of practicing CRNA's have NO degree whatsoever?
    I would suggest if you want a non biased response to stop hanging out on nursing websites.


    Now for the part about non degree CRNAs.....The AANA has required a Master's degree to become a CRNA since 1990, almost twenty years! I don't anyone is going to have any qualms about a CRNA that has been practicing over 20yrs having a certificate vs a MSN.

    According to the AMA anesthesiologist assistants have only had their national certification set up since 1989! The idea of AAs only goes back to sometime in the 1970's and there is still only a couple of thousand AA's!

    Also, I highly doubt there are still thousands of practicing CRNAs w/o degrees. There are only around 30,000 CRNAs to begin with and then by the time you figure that the youngest CRNA would have to been practicing for over 20yrs.....I think someone is skewing facts for their own AA campaign now.

    Now as far as people/nurses being uniformed about AAs. I think most of us are perfectly informed what AAs have become. The AA is nothing more than degree program for intelligent people designed to give the AMA/ASA a political tool to fight CRNA independence to ensure that MDAs maintain their supervising capabilities and high pay. The stuff about shortage of anesthesia providers is all bull! ASA doesn't care that there are potential shortages. ASA only cares about supervision and control of AAs/CRNAs. The recent AA battle in Maryland was a perfect example. The ASA tried to start an AA program in Maryland under the premise that their was/would be overall shortage of anesthesia providers in Maryland. When it was pointed out it would be faster and cheaper to just expand Univ. of Maryland's nurse anesthesia program then the story changed to oh we want to diversify the anesthesia providers!
  10. by   sewnew
    Quote from wtbcrna
    The recent AA battle in Maryland was a perfect example. The ASA tried to start an AA program in Maryland under the premise that their was/would be overall shortage of anesthesia providers in Maryland. When it was pointed out it would be faster and cheaper to just expand Univ. of Maryland's nurse anesthesia program then the story changed to oh we want to diversify the anesthesia providers!
    Can you elaborate a little more on this? I live in MD and am an aspiring CRNA. Any more information would be greatly appreciated.
  11. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from sewnew
    Can you elaborate a little more on this? I live in MD and am an aspiring CRNA. Any more information would be greatly appreciated.
    Here is an excerpt from an article/response to AA's in Maryland:

    New Anesthesia Provider May Threaten Operating Room Safety
    Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:47pm EST

    Legislation would Lower the Standard of Care by Allowing Inexperienced and
    Less Educated Anesthesiologist Assistants to Deliver Anesthesia to Maryland
    Patients

    ANNAPOLIS, Md., Feb. 24 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Maryland Association of
    Nurse Anesthetists (MANA), whose members are Certified Registered Nurse
    Anesthetists (CRNAs), today announced their opposition to Senate Bill 798 and
    House Bill 1161. These troubling bills would license anesthesiologist
    assistants (AAs) to practice in Maryland and would drastically alter the
    anesthesia delivery model currently utilized in the state. AAs, who are less
    qualified than anesthesiologists and CRNAs, currently are licensed or
    certified to practice in only 10 states and cannot practice in the U.S.
    Military. The bills are being supported by Johns Hopkins Hospital.

    "The passage of this legislation would radically ...

    Here is ASA's response about AA's http://www.beckersasc.com/news-analy...-maryland.html

    If you read through the PDF file you will see that the ASA has only officially included AA's in their ACT model since 1987 kinda of interesting when AA's want to complain that AANA has required since 1990....
    Last edit by sirI on Aug 3, '09 : Reason: edited for copyright purposes
  12. by   PostOpPrincess
    Quote from wtbcrna
    I would suggest if you want a non biased response to stop hanging out on nursing websites.


    Now for the part about non degree CRNAs.....The AANA has required a Master's degree to become a CRNA since 1990, almost twenty years! I don't anyone is going to have any qualms about a CRNA that has been practicing over 20yrs having a certificate vs a MSN.

    According to the AMA anesthesiologist assistants have only had their national certification set up since 1989! The idea of AAs only goes back to sometime in the 1970's and there is still only a couple of thousand AA's!

    Also, I highly doubt there are still thousands of practicing CRNAs w/o degrees. There are only around 30,000 CRNAs to begin with and then by the time you figure that the youngest CRNA would have to been practicing for over 20yrs.....I think someone is skewing facts for their own AA campaign now.

    Now as far as people/nurses being uniformed about AAs. I think most of us are perfectly informed what AAs have become. The AA is nothing more than degree program for intelligent people designed to give the AMA/ASA a political tool to fight CRNA independence to ensure that MDAs maintain their supervising capabilities and high pay. The stuff about shortage of anesthesia providers is all bull! ASA doesn't care that there are potential shortages. ASA only cares about supervision and control of AAs/CRNAs. The recent AA battle in Maryland was a perfect example. The ASA tried to start an AA program in Maryland under the premise that their was/would be overall shortage of anesthesia providers in Maryland. When it was pointed out it would be faster and cheaper to just expand Univ. of Maryland's nurse anesthesia program then the story changed to oh we want to diversify the anesthesia providers!
    Excellent response; whether or not my response was emotional, the facts are still there...if you've never been exposed to the medical environment EXCEPT while in school, there are many, many nuances one would miss.

    Sorry, CRNA or anesthesiologist ONLY--I wouldn't trust an AA and I think many of my colleagues would agree--oh and dare to ask a layperson who they would prefer someone with experience or none--who do you think they will pick?
  13. by   subee
    Quote from JoPACURN
    Excellent response; whether or not my response was emotional, the facts are still there...if you've never been exposed to the medical environment EXCEPT while in school, there are many, many nuances one would miss.

    Sorry, CRNA or anesthesiologist ONLY--I wouldn't trust an AA and I think many of my colleagues would agree--oh and dare to ask a layperson who they would prefer someone with experience or none--who do you think they will pick?
    I'm a CRNA and I believe in SCIENCE. I don't believe a man rose from the dead or went to heaven. I don't believe 42 virgins await a recently deceased male. I don't believe AA's are evil unless the results tell me so. And when we put them down, it sounds very similar to some MDA's who want to keep CRNA's in a very limited place - like a regular old politically heated turf war. Of course, doing the studies comparing the two professions would be difficult since AA's cannot practice independently, but then again, neither do most CRNA's. Of course I deeply believe that our nursing experience gives us the experiential edge. But after 35 years of experience, I also don't have a lot of respect for a strict medical model in anesthesia since I've worked with MDA's who have more medical knowledge than I but not a lick of the common sense one needs to give anesthesia. Anesthesia is not rocket science but it does require that you pay attention to the results of every anesthetic you give , if you aim for super competence; I'm not sure that the more difficult science courses that the AA students take contribute much to clinical competence.

close
Who should "Pass Gas"?