There is a thread below that advises NOT telling your instrutors while working on..

  1. your BSN about your ultimate desire to be a CRNA. It is said that some will "frown" upon the ambition. My question is why would they do this and can they really hurt me if I state my intentions of being a CRNA (as you can probably tell from my post I generally take a direct "no spin" approach with most issues)? There must be literally dozens of subspecialties within nursing what makes CRNA's any different? True, they may earn more money but that's only because of market forces, good old supply and demand the very life blood of our economy. In addition, CRNA's tend to RAISE the images of nurses in general potentially attracting more good students into the field benefitting THEM if only indirectly.

    Could they really hurt me if I clearly state my objectives? IF so how? If they really "stepped out of bounds" wouldn't they be risking their jobs? I am a straight "A" student (not because I'm particularly smart but rather because I am almost single minded in my desire to academically excel as my family is depending upon my success) not to mention the only male in my nursing class. The way I look at it they get paid good money to be my instuctors and its their job to teach, and mine to LEARN to the best of my ability. Frankly, its none of their business what my career ambitions are after I graduate and I won't volunteer the information unless asked. On the other hand I'm not going to lie if the question arises.

    PS. Does this mean I'm going to be in REAL trouble if they find out I'm a hard core, prolife, libertarian/conservative ?
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  2. 39 Comments

  3. by   Quest
    I am an experienced ICU nurse and Roland there are some facts that you should know:

    Most, college professors would be considered left of center. I think that this is probably more true with nursing than most other fields. Many view conservatives which you say you are as uneducated and backwards.

    Second, most nurses are women (I'm sure this one comes as a shocker to you!) What's more many have a strongly feminest perspective with all that entails. This means that many will be already looking for a reason not to like you even without the CRNA thing. Try not to give them that reason. You may want to start watching alot of Donahue and listening to NPR to get a feel for how you should act

    Third, no matter how driven you are as a student there's still plenty of rope in clinicals to have a hanging, if you get my drift. Everybody, makes mistakes and there is considerable latitude in how those are dealt with. Also, not all your tests will be objective who can really tell the difference between an A and a B or even a C essay?

    My advice is to completely set aside your pride until you realize your dreams of becoming a CRNA. This may be difficult, but look at it as just one more "assignment" which will help improve your chances of success.

    Good Luck
  4. by   alansmith52
    Roland:
    I have been in this very boat for six years now. some teachers have found out some havn't. There has been a diffrence.
    JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE TEACHER DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE PROFESSIONAL OR COMPLETLY OBJECTIVE>

    I have had teachers full on tell me they don't think males beong in nursing. when it comes to academia Nursing school is a diffrnet animal. in chemistry your judged objectively by scan tron. in nursng your not. you will right care plans (completly subjective) teachers will grade diffrently form each other. APA fromat may mean one thing for instructor and something else to another. the key is brown nosing. I say that some what tounge in cheek but its true. If you speak and act like you love nursing and love to care for people and act like nurisng theory is better than ice cream you will get a better grade.

    keep in mind that most nursing students GPA drops durring thier ower division coures. not because the content is hard but because teachers think if they give you a "C" yourll try harder. it may become very frustrating to you.

    Whenever asked about my future goals I say. "I plan to go on" and leave it at that. exept for my pre CRNA ICU job. i have been upfront with my mangager from the begging and now i can't tell how to read him. I gave him my refrences. He told me they are done and in the mail. but, i know its not true because some where supposed to come back to me. where did they go??? who knows???
    matt.
    Last edit by alansmith52 on Aug 24, '02
  5. by   kmchugh
    Roland, don't take this the wrong way, just take it as good advice. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT ABOUT YOUR INTENTIONS!!

    Yes, there are nurses, particularly some who instruct in nursing school who have a prejudice against CRNA's. I have seen it first hand. Some of it is jealosy, in that CRNA's make 3-4 times what the average nursing school instructor makes. Some instructors (and nurses) genuinely feel that CRNA's have left the truer faith of nursing. And some are put off by the fact that many, if not most, CRNA's are more conservative politically than the average nurse. There is a reason for that, but this isn't the place to go into it.

    Whatever the reason, there are instructors in nursing school who will make your life as tough as they can, and WILL fail you if they can, once they find out about your intention to become a CRNA. Is it right? No. Is it fair? No. Is there anything you can do about it? NO. Just go along.

    As to whether they could get into trouble for causing you problems, who will they get into trouble with? Other faculty, who feel the same way they do? I hardly think so. And as pointed out by others, there is a lot of room in clinical grading for "fudging."

    Even if they can't get you thrown out, they can make life tougher on you, and who needs that? Is there any harm in keeping your intentions to yourself? Of course not. So, keep it under your hat until you graduate. I know of one (now) CRNA, who upon crossing the stage to receive their college diploma for BSN told the Chairman of the Department of Nursing (while shaking her hand and taking the diploma from her) said "I have taken my first step on the road to becoming a CRNA." Nothing the chair could do about it at that point but fume. Supposedly, the nurse took great pleasure in seeing the stuffed shirt (aren't nearly all Chairpersons of Departments of Nursing pretty full of themselves?) turn three shades of green. If you want to let the school know, graduation is the time. Till then, SHUT UP!

    Kevin McHugh, CRNA
  6. by   braden74
    well i have to say that whatever schools you went to i'm glad i didn't attend there. when i told my faculty of my intentions they bent over backwards to get me experiences with CRNA's and MDA's. i spent 2 of my ob clinical days following a CRNA and 3 of my peds days with an MDA.

    maybe it is finding instructors who you trust and respect but i wouldn't want to attend a nursing school where there wasn't willingness to help every student attain their goals.

    good luck
  7. by   Roland
    one is attending? Everyone here seems so nice. I will try to follow everyones advice but it will be VERY difficult for me Heck, it even came up during my prerequisite classes in converstation with other future nurses (Anatomy, Physiology, Micro ect). It was just very natural for everyone to talk about their future hopes and dreams. I still find it difficult to believe that very MANY instructors would deliberately harm me for my beliefs. As conservative as I am, I wouldn't mark down Bill and Hillary Clinton themselves if they were in my class (if anything I would give them a bonus to counteract any subconcious bias that I might be somehow harming them with).

    Okay, so what is an acceptible "ambition" that I can point to without lying. I HAVE seriously considered TEACHING some day. Would my instructors find this a more agreeable "goal"? Of course I'm still going to have the problem that so many of the other nurses have already heard me state my goal to get my CRNA (along with my wife), move to Hawaii and then retire (on a small boat) to the South Pacific when we hit 55!
  8. by   Qwiigley
    Dude! Hawaii sounds like a great plan!
    As for conservative, WHO ISN"T? Anyone who has been in the real world, paid copious amounts of taxes, struggled to pay for thier health insurance, only to work in a Los Angeles Level I trauma center and have people who don't want to spend the time during the day to go to their PMD, rather get free healthcare in our over run ED for a cold.... ( I could go on).....
    (this would be a great topic, elsewhere)
    As for schools, Some instructors are great, some suck. That is the real world, and really, everyone- not just nursing. Some people are afraid to dream. They think because they will never have the guts to try it, that no one else should be able to do it, either. The green monster of jelousy raises its ugly head so often among women. Its sad, but true.
    My opinion? Nursing will never be taken with the highest of respect, will never get paid what we are worth, nor become a premeir choice to new students until men are fully integrated into the profession. Sad, but thats the way the world works. The minimum education needs to be a BSN (all other professionals have a min of BS) and we need a minimum of 50% males.
    Don't let anyone discourage you. YOU WILL SUCEED, but you need to learn to play the game. After you are in CRNA school, you will have to do the same thing. Some instructors will teach you to intubate/induce a patient one way and another says his way is the only way. You smile, say thank you so much for teaching me! and go on to do what you have determined thru "critically thinking" is right.
    Good luck!
    Last edit by Qwiigley on Aug 24, '02
  9. by   Quest
    and believe you probably could tell most instructors about your ambition without negative repercussions. The problem is that you don't know the ones who will try to sabotage you until its too late. In truth I havn't personally seen it happen but have heard of such things many times. Its not all that uncommon to see a hospital "set up" staff nurses who they don't like for various reasons like refusing to take float shifts. I think this is the same sort of thing.

    Also, call me conspiratorial but I think there might another reason that many nursing schools frown upon CRNA ambitions. I wonder if they are not succumbing to subtle pressure from the AMA and the MDA's without even realizing that is what is happening! It's no secret that many doctors would prefer to see CRNA's just go away (except for the one's who benefit from their service).

    In the end I think you would probably get more heat for your political views than your career ambitions. To many professors being pro life (or in one case I did witness having reservations about mandatory vaccinations and their potential dangers) are prima facia evidence that the profession would be better of without you. Mandatory vaccination and abortion on demand have become articles of faith to many in our profession. I'm sure some people here could probably add to this list. I'm an experienced nurse and wouldn't let MY views on these issues be known for fear bad things happening. Kind of sad but true I suppose.
    Best of luck.
  10. by   Lacey
    It seems like becoming a CRNA is quite the hot ticket in the nursing world. There are lots of people going into nursing school ( diploma on up) just as a step to CRNA school. I have to admit I have mixed feelings when I hear a young potential nursing student tell me that they want to become a CRNA. The number one driving force for these kids is the income. I wonder what kind of a nurse will these people make, I guess it's fortunate that they predict they will only have to deal with patient care for a mere one year before they will be promplty accepted into nurse anesthetist training. I had one young girl in her first week of clinicals ask me if a 2.7 GPA would be good enough to apply to CRNA school. This reminds me of several years ago when everyone wanted to become a life flight nurse. Wonder whatever happened to those "nurses"?
  11. by   lgcv
    re: lacey
    Well there you have it. The general feeling straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Note the quotation marks around nurses.
  12. by   researchrabbit
    WOW! Why would an instructor care what the heck the student was going to do when s/he got out? Glad I didn't have anyone like that.

    The people who had a hard time in my school were the ones who exhibited feelings which made it difficult for them to work with people of other faiths or color, and one of them was failed for being unable to stop proselytizing patients.

    We even had a CRNA talk to our nursing class!
  13. by   Roland
    and I say what's wrong with that? Who would work if they were extremely wealthy (I realize there are exceptions, but I'm speaking to the overwhelming majority here). Heck, I would spend more time watching my son grow up, and maybe get to see the world, things which are only a dream right now. Income means being able to support my family, live where I want to and yes even afford good health care (consider that right now as a student I can scarcely afford health care coverage for my son).

    Just because someone is primarily motivated by income doesn't mean that they don't desire to BE THE VERY BEST THEY CAN BE. When I was twelve and worked bailing hay during the summer for twelve hours a day, for $4.25 per hour I DID MY VERY BEST. If God willing, I am successful in attaining my goal of becoming a CRNA and earn 90K per year I will also DO MY VERY BEST. This is the very foundation upon which our entire economic system is built that is to say the pursuit of happiness. You are also correct that supply and demand is cylical. So if in twenty years CRNA's are in over supply and I (or anyone else for that matter) decides to pursue a different route (say home health care nursing ect) I again say what's so wrong with that?
  14. by   London88
    Unfortunantely the anti CRNA attitude also surfaces in the workplace. I had a discussion with my boss earlier on this year in terms of hiring new staff, and he stated that he screens his applicants carefully because some of them only want to work in ICU to get the experience required for CRNA school. I told my boss that he needs to reevaluate his thinking in times like this when there is such a nursing shortage. I asked him what is wrong with hiring a nurse who who gives two years of continuous service who then leaves to go to CRNA shool? He attempted to rationalize by saying that it costs a lot of money to put them through twleve weeks of orientation, remember orientation is non productive time, just to have them leave after two years. I asked him does he think that bringing in agency staff is more cost effective, because we sure use a lot of them? The point being made is that prejudisms exist even when they are irrational. He did not find out about my intentions to go to CRNA school until he received the forms for my references for CRNA school.

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