My CRNA friends do illegal drugs - page 5

Two of my friends who are CRNA's take recreational ecstasy almost every weekend. They will take it on Saturday night...stay up all night....and then try to sleep it off on Sunday. When Monday... Read More

  1. by   TIVA2
    The American Association of Nurse Anesthetists has a website: aana.com which offers Peer Assistance to CRNAs with substance abuse/use problems. Perhaps, you could encourage your friends to access the 800 hotline. From what I gather, they are very supportive not punity.
  2. by   oneillk1
    Quote from anne74
    Honestly, I wouldn't do anything unless I knew they were under the influence while working. Again - it would be interesting to know the pharmacodynamics of ecstasy.
    Actually I think you should do something. It is not your responsibility to try and ascertain whether they are impaired at work, or know the pharmacokinetics of the drug. The BON will have experts for that sort of thing, and one would assume that it is their responsibility to follow up on these concerns. Sure nothing may come of it, but on the other hand how would you feel if something happened when they were working one Monday morning and a patient died....

    Just something to think about
  3. by   CaseManager1947
    First of all to the OP, thanks for bringing up this topic... sure as God made the sun come up this morning, this was important to be on the website. Good for you!!. Hey, DeepZ, I was merely trying to offer a comparison of effect. I am an OR survivor, helped with many cases using the drug. There was no intent to impugn your techniques as an Anesthetist. this is about MDMA and someone's real concern. Did not intend to offend. Geesh.
  4. by   Josh L.Ac.
    Quote from RN/BSN/JD/ESQ
    The data on Ecstacy is available on PubMed and anyone who believes that it doesn't cause permanent brain damage is fooling himself/herself.

    Interesting conclusion, but only those that think this issue is that cut-and-dry are the ones really fooling themselves [or believe our government's "drug czar"]:


    Neurotoxicity of methylenedioxyamphetamines (MDMA; ecstasy) in humans: how strong is the evidence for persistent brain damage?Gouzoulis-Mayfrank E, Daumann J.
    Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, University of Cologne, Germany. e.gouzoulis@uni-koeln.de


    BACKGROUND: The popular dance drug ecstasy (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine: MDMA and some analogues) causes selective and persistent neurotoxic damage of central serotonergic neurones in laboratory animals. Serotonin plays a role in numerous functional systems in the central nervous system (CNS). Consequently, various abnormalities including psychiatric, vegetative, neuroendocrine and cognitive disorders could be expected in humans following MDMA-induced neurotoxic brain damage. AIMS: In recent years, the question of ecstasy-induced neurotoxicity and possible functional sequelae has been addressed in several studies with drug users. The aim of this paper was to review this literature and weigh the strength of the evidence for persistent brain damage in ecstasy users. METHODS: We used Medline to view all available publications on 'ecstasy' or 'MDMA'. All available studies dealing with ecstasy users entered this analysis. FINDINGS AND CONCLUSIONS: Despite large methodological problems the bulk of evidence suggests residual alterations of serotonergic transmission in MDMA users, although at least partial restitution may occur after long-term abstinence. However, functional sequelae may persist even after longer periods of abstinence. To date, the most consistent findings associate subtle cognitive, particularly memory, impairments with heavy ecstasy use. However, the evidence cannot be considered definite and the issues of possible pre-existing traits or the effects of polydrug use are not resolved. RECOMMENDATIONS: Questions about the neurotoxic effects of ecstasy on the brain remain highly topical in light of its popularity among young people. More longitudinal and prospective studies are clearly needed in order to obtain a better understanding of the possible long-term sequelae of ecstasy use in humans.


    The effects of stereotype threat on cognitive function in ecstasy users.Cole JC, Michailidou K, Jerome L, Sumnall HR.
    Psychology Department, Liverpool University, Liverpool, UK. joncole@liv.ac.uk


    Stereotype threat occurs when individuals, believed to be intellectually inferior, perform badly on cognitive tests they perceive to confirm stereotypes about them. Due to the wide media coverage of studies purporting to show cognitive deficits in ecstasy users it is possible that they experience stereotype threat. This study tested ecstasy and non-ecstasy using polysubstance misusers on a variety of cognitive tests after they had been exposed to stereotype threat. This priming consisted of exposing them to information about the long-term effects of ecstasy which either stated that ecstasy caused memory loss or that it did not. Ecstasy users that had been primed that ecstasy did not cause cognitive deficits performed better than the other three groups on the delayed portion of the prose recall task from the Rivermead Behavioural Memory Test battery. There were no other statistically significant differences between any of the groups on any of the other cognitive tests used. This suggests that stereotype threat exists in ecstasy users and may be influencing their performance in experiments designed to identify cognitive deficits. In order to prevent this occurring in future studies, experimenters must be careful how they conduct their experiments and discuss their results with the media.


    Ecstasy: pharmacology and neurotoxicity.Morton J.
    Department of Pharmacology, University of Cambridge, Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1PD, UK. ajm41@cam.ac.uk


    In part because it is amphetamine derived, ecstasy has inherited some of its parent compound's reputation for being neurotoxic. However, whereas amphetamine and methamphetamine undoubtedly cause irreversible brain damage with long-term use, the jury is still out on the party drug ecstasy. The deadly reputation of ecstasy has been fuelled by the tragic fates of healthy young clubbers who have died after taking the drug. However, compared with other recreational drugs, there have been very few ecstasy-related deaths. Further, there is little evidence for short-term neurotoxicity of ecstasy at recreational doses. That is not to say that ecstasy leaves the user neutral. Chronic ecstasy use causes depletion of serotonin, which has subtle but important long-term effects on cognition and mood. Although it seems unlikely that we will be faced with a generation of party goers who suffer from premature Parkinson's disease, so little is known about the long-term effects of ecstasy on mood, emotional states and cognitive function that at present we cannot predict what impact their use of ecstasy will have on the middle-age of the average ecstasy user.



    Those are the some of the abstracts in the very first screen of pubmed with the search "MDMA brain damage". I'm sure there are more, but I watching an episode of House on DVD and would like to get back to it.
  5. by   Roy Fokker
    Quote from rn/writer
    Please note: Focker, the above poster, and Roy Fokker, the moderator, are two different people. Easy to confuse the two.
    This "Fokker" doesn't disagree with the gist of Mr. Focker's earlier post

    Mr. Focker --- this website lets you post polls. All one has to do is become a Premium Member!
  6. by   Laughing Gas
    Quote from susswood
    Comparing terrorists with drug use? Lets get real here. That's insulting.

    And just to clarify, just because you believe people heve the right to do what they want in their own time does not mean you condone or endorse the behavior. Many of us just believe in the right to privacy.

    The fact that ecstacy is illegal does not make it any more dangerous than a legal drug like alcohol. In the right circumstance, alcohol can be just as illegal and much more dangerous than ecstacy (i.e. driving). Alcohol related deaths are in fact frequently reported... when was the last time you heard about an ecstacy related death? Want your health-care provider to work with an alcohol hang-over? No, but it's legal, and it probably happens way more often than you think. In fact, alcohol addiction is a common and unfortunate problem... ecstacy addiction? I don't think so.

    Honestly, I would think very hard before I went off and tried to ruin someone's life 'cause they party on the weekend. Honestly, I'm way more afraid of alcoholics... they're everywhere, and they're well within the law to carry out their addiction. Like I said... get a grip, people.
    1.The right to privacy has nothing to do with illegal drug use.

    2. X is more dangerous than alcohol. I can have a beer and be 99.9% full functioning. I bet after 1 X tab I'm not so hot.

    3.When was the last time I heard about an X related death? About 2 weeks ago, 3 teens died.

    4.ETOH can be just as dangerous due to driving? Cell phone use and inattentive drivers are pretty darn dangerous too. So are 16 and 86 year old drivers. Any other intelligent comparisons?

    5.Working with a hangover is dangerous. Working with any distraction, flu, hangover, bad gas pains:wink2: is dangerous. What's your point? CRNA's should not be coming in hungover either.

    6.Ecstacy addiction, you don't think so. How long have you been researching this? Was this part of your PhD thesis? Not that it matters. But you have 2 choices; Do you select the CRNA who had a bowl of corn flakes for breakfeast and spent the weekend playing with the kids..... or the CRNA who just got a good 20 minutes of sleep between X hits this weekend? Hurry the mask is coming down on your face!

    Since you think that privacy governs this area, we'll let you honor the impaired CRNA's rights by risking your life. Best of luck, you'll need it.
    Last edit by rn/writer on Sep 27, '06
  7. by   jwk
    Quote from Laughing Gas
    1.The right to privacy has nothing to do with illegal drug use.

    2. X is more dangerous than alcohol. I can have a beer and be 99.9% full functioning. I bet after 1 X tab I'm not so hot.

    3.When was the last time I heard about an X related death? About 2 weeks ago, 3 teens died.

    4.ETOH can be just as dangerous due to driving? Cell phone use and inattentive drivers are pretty darn dangerous too. So are 16 and 86 year old drivers. Any other intelligent comparisons?

    5.Working with a hangover is dangerous. Working with any distraction, flu, hangover, bad gas pains:wink2: is dangerous. What's your point? CRNA's should not be coming in hungover either.

    6.Ecstacy addiction, you don't think so. How long have you been researching this? Was this part of your PhD thesis? Not that it matters. But you have 2 choices; Do you select the CRNA who had a bowl of corn flakes for breakfeast and spent the weekend playing with the kids..... or the CRNA who just got a good 20 minutes of sleep between X hits this weekend? Hurry the mask is coming down on your face!

    Since you think that privacy governs this area, we'll let you honor the impaired CRNA's rights by risking your life. Best of luck, you'll need it.
    Last edit by rn/writer on Sep 27, '06
  8. by   RNCRNA2BE
    This is really starting to sound like my substance of choice isn't as bad as yours. Impaired is impaired!
  9. by   RNCRNA2BE
    Quote from Laughing Gas
    1.The right to privacy has nothing to do with illegal drug use.

    2. X is more dangerous than alcohol. I can have a beer and be 99.9% full functioning. I bet after 1 X tab I'm not so hot.

    3.When was the last time I heard about an X related death? About 2 weeks ago, 3 teens died.

    4.ETOH can be just as dangerous due to driving? Cell phone use and inattentive drivers are pretty darn dangerous too. So are 16 and 86 year old drivers. Any other intelligent comparisons?

    5.Working with a hangover is dangerous. Working with any distraction, flu, hangover, bad gas pains:wink2: is dangerous. What's your point? CRNA's should not be coming in hungover either.

    6.Ecstacy addiction, you don't think so. How long have you been researching this? Was this part of your PhD thesis? Not that it matters. But you have 2 choices; Do you select the CRNA who had a bowl of corn flakes for breakfeast and spent the weekend playing with the kids..... or the CRNA who just got a good 20 minutes of sleep between X hits this weekend? Hurry the mask is coming down on your face!

    Since you think that privacy governs this area, we'll let you honor the impaired CRNA's rights by risking your life. Best of luck, you'll need it.
    Good points made here
    Last edit by rn/writer on Sep 27, '06
  10. by   OneChattyNurse
    [font="comic sans ms"]i know first hand of a nurse that is on probation (with the bon) for an owi. she has to call the bon every day and find out whether she has been chosen for a urinalysis and she has to check in with someone else at the bon monthly to let them know her status. this was because she did something illegal (drinking and driving). i am thinking if the bon thinks this strongly on operating while intoxicated they just might frown on illegal drug use!
  11. by   bopps
    I work in a fairly busy ed and have seen the effects of estacy a young teenage girl who was given it without knowing what it was. It's a date-rape drug guys. What does that say about its effects on impaiment? The girl I helped take care of was absolutly out of it and out of control had absolutely know clue what was going on. Hmm.. I wouldn't have wanted to be anestisized by her even if she waited three days. She was truly having an out of body experience. I can hardly believe there is any question about how to handle a situation like this.
  12. by   RNCRNA2BE
    Quote from bopps
    I work in a fairly busy ed and have seen the effects of estacy a young teenage girl who was given it without knowing what it was. It's a date-rape drug guys. What does that say about its effects on impaiment? The girl I helped take care of was absolutly out of it and out of control had absolutely know clue what was going on. Hmm.. I wouldn't have wanted to be anestisized by her even if she waited three days. She was truly having an out of body experience. I can hardly believe there is any question about how to handle a situation like this.
    Are you sure your not talking about GHB aka liquid ecstacy? That's what is know as a date rape drug. It has no taste or color, and renders the user very much out of control.
  13. by   nurse4theplanet
    Bottom Line...It's illegal. There is no literature within the Nurse Practice Act, within any facility policy, or within the law of the US that allows healthcare professionals to use illegal drugs, recreationally or otherwise. In fact, the opposite is true....you pop a positive drug test and your out...and they don't ask, "Well, were you using it in the OR or on your time off?" Why? Because it doesn't make a difference. And I will let you all know now, if you were working with me you would have two choices...seek help or face your supervisor. You risked your license by using...I'm not taking anything away from you or "ruining" your life if you freely assume the risk knowing the consequences of being reported. Happy drug free night to all!

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