CRNA Threat

[samirish]

I read the following post on a student doctor's forum:

"Agreed. CRNA's and nurses in general aren't the smartest group of people out there.

The CRNA backlash has already begun. In response to CRNA's push for autonomy, anesthesiologists are supporting AA's and being careful how they train SNRA's. Long-term, both are very bad for the future of CRNA's. CRNA's had it pretty good for a while but a few militant of them became greedy and wanted more. I think most CRNA's will regret what a few have done to their profession.

Once more anesthesia automation enters the OR, I think the point of autonomy will be less and less important because the team model will prevail in that setting.

Ethicon Endo-Surgery Urges FDA to Grant SEDASYS® System Appeal (http://www.pharmpro.com/News/2010/11/Ethicon-Endo-Surgery-Urges-FDA-to-Grant-SEDASYS%C2%AE-System-Appeal/)"

Im wondering, what does this mean? What are the ramifications to CRNA's based on this post, if what he says is in fact true?

This post was dated Nov.2010

[portland medic]

My two cents; I have been a paramedic for 11 years in the Portland area. I'm not a nurse (yet) or a CRNA (but someday hope to be) but I think it's somewhat of an over-reaction to spell doom and gloom for the entire profession of CRNA's. Here in Portland, 1 hospital just this last year switched from the MDA-only Oregon Anesthesiology Group to anesthetix, a group based on the ACT model that incorporates CRNA's. I don't think it's likely that a whole career disappears when it has such a long history.

[ABCCRN]

This whole debate regarding PA's vs. NP's funny. I'm a RN, going on 13 years. I've worked with many PA's and NP's in a varying capacities. Therefore, I believe I can make a pretty well informed opinion regarding the two. I believe that PA's are better prepared to practice compared to a NP. Their clinical experience while in school is much more intensive. There is no debate when you consider the minimum clinical requirement to graduate. The coursework is equally intensive and design to practice medicine, much like a doctor. NP school is a bit of a joke. (1) you can earn the degree online... Really? And, NP's wonder why they receive less respect. Personally, I think this is a slap in the face to physicians. (2) the coursework is quite similar to that of undergrad, just a bit more intensive. (3) too much time is spent on "nursing theories"! What a joke! Tell me, how is this going to save someone's life. How about eliminating all those stupid theories from the coursework and focus on more important topics.Just a few thoughts of mine.... I am pursuing a career as a CRNA because I believe it will provide me with happiness on many levels.

[nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NP]

You obviously have no clue. First because you are not a NP or PA. Second, because you are showing you have no knowledge about the school.

BTW, I am a CRNA AND FNP. So please, finish one and come back and discuss the difference between what you finished and PA/MD>

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

This whole debate regarding PA's vs. NP's funny. I'm a RN, going on 13 years. I've worked with many PA's and NP's in a varying capacities. Therefore, I believe I can make a pretty well informed opinion regarding the two. I believe that PA's are better prepared to practice compared to a NP. Their clinical experience while in school is much more intensive. There is no debate when you consider the minimum clinical requirement to graduate. The coursework is equally intensive and design to practice medicine, much like a doctor. NP school is a bit of a joke. (1) you can earn the degree online... Really? And, NP's wonder why they receive less respect. Personally, I think this is a slap in the face to physicians. (2) the coursework is quite similar to that of undergrad, just a bit more intensive. (3) too much time is spent on "nursing theories"! What a joke! Tell me, how is this going to save someone's life. How about eliminating all those stupid theories from the coursework and focus on more important topics.Just a few thoughts of mine.... I am pursuing a career as a CRNA because I believe it will provide me with happiness on many levels.

So, if NP training is so bad why are there several studies that show equal or greater care from NPs when compared to their physician counterparts.

Unless you plan on going to a nurse anesthesia school that is not associated with a school of nursing you are going to take all those "nursing theories" again in nurse anesthesia school.

[ckh23, BSN, RN]

So, if NP training is so bad why are there several studies that show equal or greater care from NPs when compared to their physician counterparts.

Unless you plan on going to a nurse anesthesia school that is not associated with a school of nursing you are going to take all those "nursing theories" again in nurse anesthesia school.

I can vouch for that because I'm in a nursing theory class this semester.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

I can vouch for that because I'm in a nursing theory class this semester.

And you have done PA school, MSN etc.... You don't like a class so the whole profession/program is bad. They reasoning doesn't quite work out. Very few nurses that I know actually liked nursing theory, but that doesn't make PAs better than NPs.

[ckh23, BSN, RN]

And you have done PA school, MSN etc.... You don't like a class so the whole profession/program is bad. They reasoning doesn't quite work out. Very few nurses that I know actually liked nursing theory, but that doesn't make PAs better than NPs.

I think you misinterpreted my post. I was reinforcing your point about having to take nursing theory and other nursing classes while pursuing an anesthesia degree and that is not solely linked to NP classes.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

I think you misinterpreted my post. I was reinforcing your point about having to take nursing theory and other nursing classes while pursuing an anesthesia degree and that is not solely linked to NP classes.

oops...wasn't paying attention.

[ABCCRN]

Actually, I do have a clue. (1) I completed three semesters of graduate studies towards for NP, but realized it wasn't not for me. So, I do have first hand knowledge of the program. (2) Over the last 13 years of working in both the ER and ICU, I've worked side by side with both PA's and NP's. Yes, there are good ones and bad ones. But in my experience the PA's were more confident and proficient in their practice. Therefore, this reflects the education they received. This is my observation. Maybe, I shouldn't have made a generalization. I know there are a lot of good NP schools out there and there are a lot of qualified NP. And yes, after I complete anesthesia school, I would love to discuss my experience and opinions with you.

[msn10]

ABCCRN

Maybe it is the NP school in your area.

During my DNP, I am only taking 1 nursing theory class, 2 advanced stats, and one advanced research. The other 70 credits were clinical (with didactic components.) Yes, there is some theory in nursing school, but I really don't think it makes up the majority of what we learn.

[nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NP]

So you have never practiced as a NP. You completed 3 semesters and did not finish? I assume this was a Masters program? So now you have 3 semesters under your belt when before it was,

This whole debate regarding PA's vs. NP's funny. I'm a RN, going on 13 years. I've worked with many PA's and NP's in a varying capacities. Therefore, I believe I can make a pretty well informed opinion regarding the two.

Can you say, no credibility?

Sorry, talk is cheap. Just by what you said in your last post shows you really don't have a clue about the educational requirements.

What you wrote below is just so far of base as to be ludicrous. What you don't realize is that we (NP/CRNA) know what you wrote is ridiculous.

I believe that PA's are better prepared to practice compared to a NP. Their clinical experience while in school is much more intensive. There is no debate when you consider the minimum clinical requirement to graduate. The coursework is equally intensive and design to practice medicine, much like a doctor. NP school is a bit of a joke. (1) you can earn the degree online... Really? And, NP's wonder why they receive less respect. Personally, I think this is a slap in the face to physicians. (2) the coursework is quite similar to that of undergrad, just a bit more intensive.

Actually, I do have a clue. (1) I completed three semesters of graduate studies towards for NP, but realized it wasn't not for me. So, I do have first hand knowledge of the program. (2) Over the last 13 years of working in both the ER and ICU, I've worked side by side with both PA's and NP's. Yes, there are good ones and bad ones. But in my experience the PA's were more confident and proficient in their practice. Therefore, this reflects the education they received. This is my observation. Maybe, I shouldn't have made a generalization. I know there are a lot of good NP schools out there and there are a lot of qualified NP. And yes, after I complete anesthesia school, I would love to discuss my experience and opinions with you.

[msn10]

NP school is a bit of a joke. (1) you can earn the degree online... Really? And, NP's wonder why they receive less respect.

One big difference. Nurses going to graduate school to become NP's are already nurses. They are getting an advanced nursing degree. PA's do not have any required healthcare experience before getting into a program so they need to have a brick and motor program with a heck of a lot more clinical hours than an NP; we already have clinical hours from nursing school and most likely on the job experience. However, if you want to compare apples to apples, then there are online PA graduate programs for people who already have a bachelor's as a PA.