Any Navy CRNA's out there?

Qwiigley, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, CRNA · Feb 7, 2008

I don't know first hand how hard it is to be a Navy CRNA, I do know that the ones I have worked with (at Balboa) were so unbelievably excellent!! Being a California CRNA I continue to come in contact with Navy CRNAs and attend their presentations on their studies. Truly excellent CRNAs.

lava · Feb 8, 2008

curious as to where you find these rankings? i cant find them anywhere on the us news website

allnurses Guide · Feb 8, 2008

I don't know first hand how hard it is to be a Navy CRNA, I do know that the ones I have worked with (at Balboa) were so unbelievably excellent!! Being a California CRNA I continue to come in contact with Navy CRNAs and attend their presentations on their studies. Truly excellent CRNAs.

Please, don't anything I said as bashing the Navy CRNA program. They are all excellent CRNAs. We all joke about our different branches idiosyncrasies, but it is all in fun.

True_Navy_CRNA · Aug 19, 2009

An actual Navy CRNA here and I will try to shed some light on a few myths I found here in this forum. As for "Halothane" you are incorrect on several of your statements about Navy CRNA's. CRNA's begin getting a bonus immediately after completion of CRNA school. However, the size of the bonus is different. Currently, the size of the bonus is $6000 while in pay back (which is only 4.5 years - not 7). Now that bonus has been approved to be raised to $15,000/yr but has not yet been changed by our director. She is ending her tenure in a few months so most likely it will be changed soon. After payback (4.5 yrs), the bonus depends on the member. If the CRNA wants to continue on active duty 1 year at a time he/she will receive $15k/yr. If they choose 2 yrs at a time: $25k/yr. If 3 yrs: $35k/yr and if 4 yrs: $40k/yr (maximum amount).

We are currently manned at 104% so the statement that the Navy HIGHLY needs CRNA's is a little misleading. With the recession, many CRNA's are remaining on active duty longer than before. The Navy will continue to send 20 - 22 students to USUHS for anesthesia school annually and that will continue until otherwise directed. Our needs are mostly at the O-4 level but our overall needs are currently met.

Yes, you will most likely deploy as a CRNA but it is not guaranteed. At about 1 year post graduating, our deployment coordinator places new CRNA's at the top of the list to deploy. Does this guarantee a deployment? No... things happen. CRNA's have babies... CRNA's have surgery... CRNA's get stationed overseas or in a few duty stations that can not support losing them for 7 months (29 Palms, Lemoore CA). So not everyone deploys during their payback time and a few end up doing 4.5 years and leaving, never having deployed. Again, that is not the norm and most CRNA's deploy at laast once and yes... occassionally twice during those 1st 4.5 years. My note on this is: if you are not willing or expecting to deploy: practice in a non-military role.

As for the rankings: Navy (NNCAP) is ranked #3 b/c: Georgetown's rank is based soley on the programs civilian participants - didactic and clinical. USUHS's rank is based on the didactic as well as the other students that attend (Air force, Army and Public Health). The Navy student attend didactic through USUHS but when they start clinicals they are (essentially) removed from that program b/c they are NNCAP students - not USUHS students. Same with the Navy students that went to G'town (which by the way is no longer an option for the Navy students). NNCAP is ranked according to the didactic portion AND the clinical portion. It is this clinical portion that is 2nd to none! Side note: The VCU program is really good - nothing against them... but the person who sits on these rankings and writes this report is staff at VCU - look it up. A little bias there? The clinical program requires the SRNA to live breath and sleep anesthesia. I know my colleagues at G'town and Texas Weslyan and Rush, etc... are good providers. But we compared hours in the chair - not even close! The Navy CRNA has to finish training and be completely autonomous the day they graduate. If needed - they can be placed on a Air Craft Carrier with 5000 sailors in the middle of no where - and provide anesthesia from day 1! How do you ensure that? The program's clinical aspect - ensures it! 2nd to none. Ask the Army and Air Force and they will say that they only lack the regional component that we receive during training... maybe, I'm not Army or Air Force - but either way - 2nd to none. Last point: I also moonlight and have for years. Every time I mention that I am a NAVY CRNA - when can I start and how often can I be there? Look in the ad section of a Anesthesia Magazine - some places beg for retired Navy CRNA's. That is the real way you can tell if the program is worthy of a ranking.

As for Halothanes herioc deployment(s): never put anything past a veteran (nurse or whatever). Unless you've walked in their shoes... After 18 years in this boat club this is for sure: nothing! When someone says nurses aren't in a combat zones: there they are. Nurses aren't fired upon: tell that to a friend of mine who is now out of the hospital after being shot in the neck in Afghanistan while on base! Who two friends (engineer and a medical service corps officer) were shot in the chest and both died. It is true that Corpsmen/Medics are most often and more likely to serve in the soup. Absolute heros! Thank you Halothane for what you do every day!

Any more questions: please ask

allnurses Guide · Aug 20, 2009

Ask the Army and Air Force and they will say that they only lack the regional component that we receive during training... maybe, I'm not Army or Air Force - but either way - 2nd to none. Last point: I also moonlight and have for years. Every time I mention that I am a NAVY CRNA - when can I start and how often can I be there? Look in the ad section of a Anesthesia Magazine - some places beg for retired Navy CRNA's. That is the real way you can tell if the program is worthy of a ranking.

Actually all the services are highly trained in regional anesthesia....Depending on the clinical site the Army CRNAs probably get the most regional training from the Army CRNAs I have talked to. The Navy has one of the most well rounded nurse anesthesia programs there is. The AF seems to be a little more dependent on the clinical site they are trained at, because unlike the Army and the Navy we really don't have any large AF hospitals that we train at so we are more dependent on our civilian clinical rotations than the Army or Navy.

By the way just a couple of points: 1. I feel that I can speak a lot for the Navy training since I am an AF SRNA training at National Naval Medical Center. 2. Navy Nurse Corps anesthesia program as a separate enity ends this Feburary when the last NNCAP class graduates.....All future Navy students will be USUHS students and will fall under the USUHS curriculum.

True_Navy_CRNA · Aug 20, 2009

A point to my earlier post: It read as if I was saying the Army and AF have zero regional training and that is not true. THey have a regional component to their training. However, as someone who has worked at Bethesda - that regional component is a small part of the srna curriculum and if my info is correct Bethesda was NOT even a training site for Navy until this year. I can only speak for the Portsmouth and San Diego facilities when I say that the regional training aspect of those two facilities consisted of about 2 months of regional training for each SRNA as well as the regional component that encompasses OB. I believe that the Navy SRNA's that trained at San Diego accumulate about 200 - 250 regional "blocks" (not counting OB) as annotated by meditrax. I am not sure about the Army's regional program but I do know that I have had quite a few army CRNA's come to our facilities and request to run with the regional team in order to "brush up" or learn techniques they did not receive in their training. I have never worked with AF CRNA's so I can not comment. A friend of mine once told me that they were utilized similar to how many CRNA are utilized in the civilian sector. In the Navy, we are COMPLETELY autonomous. We do not have another provider in the room pushing our medication or watching us intubate, etc... Still, I also want to state that military anesthesia as a whole is amazing and the best training and experience one could ask for while also being paid to learn. I do not want to sound as if I am down playing any of the other services. And yes, it is true. After this year, the didactic component will all be through USUHS. However, the clinical rotations will still be separate facilities for the branches with the exception of Bethesda. I think the level of training at the clinical site depend on the faculty there as to how good the training component will be.

allnurses Guide · Aug 20, 2009

A point to my earlier post: It read as if I was saying the Army and AF have zero regional training and that is not true. THey have a regional component to their training. However, as someone who has worked at Bethesda - that regional component is a small part of the srna curriculum and if my info is correct Bethesda was NOT even a training site for Navy until this year. I can only speak for the Portsmouth and San Diego facilities when I say that the regional training aspect of those two facilities consisted of about 2 months of regional training for each SRNA as well as the regional component that encompasses OB. I believe that the Navy SRNA's that trained at San Diego accumulate about 200 - 250 regional "blocks" (not counting OB) as annotated by meditrax. I am not sure about the Army's regional program but I do know that I have had quite a few army CRNA's come to our facilities and request to run with the regional team in order to "brush up" or learn techniques they did not receive in their training. I have never worked with AF CRNA's so I can not comment. A friend of mine once told me that they were utilized similar to how many CRNA are utilized in the civilian sector. In the Navy, we are COMPLETELY autonomous. We do not have another provider in the room pushing our medication or watching us intubate, etc... Still, I also want to state that military anesthesia as a whole is amazing and the best training and experience one could ask for while also being paid to learn. I do not want to sound as if I am down playing any of the other services. And yes, it is true. After this year, the didactic component will all be through USUHS. However, the clinical rotations will still be separate facilities for the branches with the exception of Bethesda. I think the level of training at the clinical site depend on the faculty there as to how good the training component will be.

Let's see:

1. This is the 4th class of SRNAs to go through NNMC Bethesda. This years class at Bethesda is the 1st to have Navy students in it for several years d/t problems with the site that caused it to be closed to SRNAs years ago.

2. 200-250 seems kinda of high for my Navy counterparts at San Diego, but it may be entirely possible because they have a very pro-SRNA/CRNA regional team.

3. Yes, the Navy has a "Completely" autonomous scope of practice. But not to burst anyones bubble that is not the model that is utilized at NNMC. NNMC utilizes the same model as the Army and the AF that requires consultation by CRNAs for ASA 3 and 4 patients no matter what branch you are from. Bethesda has Army, AF, and Navy CRNAs working there and of course in 2011 will become a true tri-service site.

4. The AF and Army have been working to move to the same scope of practice as the Navy, but it is still comes down to the same thing individual facilities can limit our scope of practice stateside in the military. As I understand it Walter Reed utilizes a supervisory model for their CRNAs which is going to be real interesting when Walter Reed and NNMC combine. Not to mention the fact that SRNAs aren't allowed to do regional at Walter Reed....!

5. The consultation model that is used by AF and Army is non-supervisory model also, so with the exception of a very few military facilities no MDA is there pushing your drugs or looking over your shoulder unless you ask them to be there to help you out with ped pt or difficult airway etc.

I am very Pro-Navy, because I basically have done all my training with the Navy, but things just aren't that cut and dry between the services as far as SRNA training goes. Each clinical site has its pros and cons. The Navy probably is the most consistent overall with their training sites, but as mentioned earlier NNCAP is going away and the Navy students will be following USU curriculum which it seems to be a bit different at least that is my understanding from working with CAPT H. the head of the NNCAP program.

True_Navy_CRNA · Aug 21, 2009

The previous post by WTBCRNA is "SPOT ON"! I completely concur with the post. I was not aware of problems at NNMC as to "problems with the site that caused it to be closed to SRNAs years ago". Those problems could have just been logisitic issues? I am not aware.

As for consultation on PTs with ASA 3 and 4 status, I would hope that no one is so cavalier that they never consult with someone. I personally like knowing that there are a few people outside the room that have some sort of familiarity with my case if there are any major issue in case something arises. I am sure that guideline is followed at all/most facilities. Whether or not it is mandated is another issue but most of my colleagues would agree that consultation is almost always sought.

I agree that the merging of Walter Reed with NNMC is going to be interesting indeed!

As for the SRNA training not being so "cut and dry between the services"... I couldn't have said it better. Thus the reason for the long posts. There are differences mainly because of the type of utilization of the CRNA's post graduation. However, as an answer to the original poster, I believe that the military trained CRNA's ARE initially trained at a much higher level than their civilian counterparts - and THAT training is due mostly because of the clinical phase portion of the program. There is a glaring difference b/w a new Navy CRNA that graduated from Georgetown and their Civilian counterpart that shared the didactic classroom with them for a year.

Just a CRNA · Aug 28, 2009

sorry to bring up an old thread but, who would be #1? and don't the air force have CRNA's too? or no?

Not wanting to cast aspersions, but the USN&WR ranking is not based on any form of objective data. The ratings are based on surveys sent to program directors, not unlike the coaches' polls in football rankings. This ranking was computed in January of the year cited, based on data from a survey sent out in the fall of the previous year. A survey sent to program directors and deans of those programs leaves a lot of room for subjectivity. Since this data was computed in January 2007 gathered from a survey sent in the fall of 2006, it is also less than current. Here is a list taken from the AANA website in 2008 showing the accreditation periods granted to each program. These time frames were based on objective data which included site visits and a thorough review of student case numbers, graduation rates, pass rates, and overall program administration by the COA. I submit that this list (roughly in alphabetical order from the website) has a little more credibility. Also note that the 3 and 4 year accreditation periods may be provisional, given to new schools awaiting their first formal accreditation cycle. In editing, I've added the USNWR rating to schools who received less than a ten year accreditation by the COA.

10 Years:

Albany Medical College

Allegheny Valley

Baylor

Boston College

Bryan LGH

Carolinas/UNCC

Cleveland Clinic

Columbia

Crozier

Decatur/Bradley

Samford

Drexel

Duke

East Carolina

Evanston/Northwestern

Excela

Fairfield/Bridgeport

Case Western

Skemp

LaSalle

Gooding

Gannon

St Raphael's

Kaiser

LSU

Mayo Clinic

MUSC

Memorial/Rhode Island

Minneapolis

Mt. Marty

Navy Nurse Corps

Nazareth

New Britain

Northeastern

UAB

Oakland/Beaumont

Raleigh

Rush

St. Mary's

Samuel Merritt

St. Elizabeth's

St. John's

St. Joseph's

TCU

Akron

Iowa

Michigan/Flint

Tennessee Knoxville

Tennessee Chattanooga

Tennessee Memphis

Truman

US Army GPAN

USUHS

Cincinnati

Detroit Mercy

Kansas

Maryland

Pitt

Penn

North Dakota

U Southern Cal

U South Carolina

UT Houston

VCU

Wake Forest

Wayne State

Webster

Wyoming Valley

8 Years:

Arkansas State #77

Barry #78

Charleston Area MC #42

Georgetown #7

Barnes #31

Middle Tennessee #69

Newman #65

Sacred Heart/Spokane #74

SIU/Edwardsville #82

Minnesota #49

U of New England #50

6 Years:

Florida International

MC Georgia #63

Midwestern

Old Dominion #56

Texas Wesleyan

Trover #74

4 Years:

Inter-American

Florida Hospital

SUNY Harlem

Our Lady of Lourdes

Mountain State

Michigan State

Rosalind Franklin

Union

SUNY Buffalo #18

UMD/New Jersey

U Puerto Rico

West Carolina

Wolford

York #86

3 Years:

Thomas Jefferson #73

U of North Florida

Florida Gulf Coast

Mercer #80

Oregon Health

Our Lady of the Lake #81

U of South Florida

Miami

Westminster

johanna767 · Jan 21, 2011

3. Yes, the Navy has a "Completely" autonomous scope of practice. But not to burst anyones bubble that is not the model that is utilized at NNMC. NNMC utilizes the same model as the Army and the AF that requires consultation by CRNAs for ASA 3 and 4 patients no matter what branch you are from. Bethesda has Army, AF, and Navy CRNAs working there and of course in 2011 will become a true tri-service site.
4. The AF and Army have been working to move to the same scope of practice as the Navy, but it is still comes down to the same thing individual facilities can limit our scope of practice stateside in the military. As I understand it Walter Reed utilizes a supervisory model for their CRNAs which is going to be real interesting when Walter Reed and NNMC combine. Not to mention the fact that SRNAs aren't allowed to do regional at Walter Reed....!

I know this is an older thread but I was hoping for an update to some of the information posted. I am a Navy Nurse - I love what I do (on most days :)). I have been acceppted to the Nurse Anesthesia program and will attend USUHS in Bethesda. I have to submit my "wish list" for the Phase II clinical site and am tied between wanting to stay at Bethesda (NNMC) or go to sunny Jacksonville FL. I wanted to go to NNMC because I have been told that those students do a rotation at Baltimore Shock Trauma = I cannot imagine a better place stateside to learn how to prepare for battlefield trauma. I am concerned about what I have heard about NNMC going to an Army training model and thus less opportunity to learn regional anesthesia. As already mentioned the Navy expects the CRNA's to be able to function independently right out of school and we are immediatly deployable. I want to make sure I am at a clinical site that will provide me the best opportunities.

allnurses Guide · Jan 22, 2011

I know this is an older thread but I was hoping for an update to some of the information posted. I am a Navy Nurse - I love what I do (on most days :)). I have been acceppted to the Nurse Anesthesia program and will attend USUHS in Bethesda. I have to submit my "wish list" for the Phase II clinical site and am tied between wanting to stay at Bethesda (NNMC) or go to sunny Jacksonville FL. I wanted to go to NNMC because I have been told that those students do a rotation at Baltimore Shock Trauma = I cannot imagine a better place stateside to learn how to prepare for battlefield trauma. I am concerned about what I have heard about NNMC going to an Army training model and thus less opportunity to learn regional anesthesia. As already mentioned the Navy expects the CRNA's to be able to function independently right out of school and we are immediatly deployable. I want to make sure I am at a clinical site that will provide me the best opportunities.

I personally would steer clear of Bethesda for a few years and see how the integration works out. San Diego sounded like a great clinical site according to my Navy CRNA friends. Baltimore Shock Trauma sounds really cool and interesting, but I didn't think it was that great of a rotation. Most of the really exciting stuff at shock trauma happens in the trauma resuscitation unit/TRU and SRNAs don't usual goto that area.

Tommy2001 · Feb 2, 2011

Johanna767,

I was wondering if you'd answer a few questions for me. I am prior Navy of eight years enlisted. I seperated from the Navy to go to nursing school. I want to come back into the Navy as a Nurse and my ultimate goal is to be a Navy CRNA. Should I get my critical care experience before going back in? Should I try to get into CRNA school before the Navy? or should I come striaght in? I'm not sure what the best path would be. I'm definetly coming back in but I want to give myself the best opportunity at reaching my goals. Any advice you could give I'd really appreciate. Congrats on CRNA school!