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| No. 220 | 
Apr 26, 2007, 06:25 PM
 Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground? Originally Posted by georgia_aa  ........you ARE against AAs if you are a dues paying member of the AANA. A percentage of every dollar that you pay to them goes directly towards efforts severely curtail or eliminate AA practice rights. ........
More A$A baloney. Here's a factual antidote:
CRNA-PAC takes care of lobbying and such political functions.
AANA dues are a separate matter entirely, funds never co-mingled.
 | | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 221 |
Apr 29, 2007, 10:03 PM
Updated
Apr 30, 2007 at 12:19 AM by GregRN
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground? Originally Posted by georgia_aa Greg - I have no doubt that you are a good guy
Though the former "Mrs. GregRN" may have a different opinion, you are kind for saying so.  Originally Posted by georgia_aa However, you ARE against AAs if you are a dues paying member of the AANA. A percentage of every dollar that you pay to them goes directly towards efforts severely curtail or eliminate AA practice rights. You can't have it both ways. If you disagree with what your national organization is doing then I hope that you are voicing your opposition in some way other than posting it on a nursing forum. Otherwise, you are paying to put your friends out of work.
I s'pose I could be sneaky and say that I don't belong to the AANA. While that statement is certainly factual, it's not entirely entirely truthful. The reason I'm not a member of the AANA is that I'm just a lowly CRNA hopeful, currently in the process of applying to various programs.
I never said I disagreed with what the AANA is proposing and pushing for, and at the same time I never said I agreed with it. I'll be honest: I haven't studied it enough to form an opinion either way. What I don't agree with is any of the three groups of anesthesia providers claiming one group is "safer" than the other. Study after study is inconclusive. In fact, researcher bias will draw different conclusions from the same database (Surgical Mortality and Type of Anesthesia Provider, Michael Pine, MD and associates). I want evidence, I want results. So far, there isn't any.
I have absolutely no problem with AA programs opening up more slots for well trained, excellent anesthesia providers for the benefit of patients across the country and the betterment of personal career opportunities. What I'm opposed to, however, is the ASA using it as a political tool to continue keeping their thumb on my future profession for the sole purpose of lining their own pockets. They do this under the cloak of "patient safety," yet no evidence to back it up. It's ridiculous.
Absolutely I will become a member of the AANA when eligible and will gladly pay whatever membership dues are required. While I may not agree with EVERYTHING the organization says and does, they are still my (future) voice in CRNA issues. It is a very large, very powerful organization which, without it, many current CRNA's would have been relegated to no more than being on the receiving end of, "Please pass the sux."
| | No. 222 |
May 05, 2007, 11:09 AM
Updated
May 05, 2007 at 02:10 PM by CerebralCRNA
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground? Originally Posted by georgia_aa Well... I read THAT and absolutely laughed MY you know what off. Smearing a profession with no outcome studies to back it up?? Why the audacity of it!!! You guys kill me.
The Pine Study in 2003 took THOUSANDS of cases from a national healthcare database and compared outcomes and found no difference you might want to check that out.
If your at all familiar with statistics you would understand that the ASA will not (and knows this, just read the Federal Trade Commission transcripts from 2003) win the statistical argument. You would need MILLIONS of cases to see if there (if any) was a difference. Insurance companies and hospital CEOs also understand the implications of an infinitely small effect size. The reasons that our future are not in jeopardy are 1) we have to ability NOT to work directly under an anesthesiologist and 2) our ability to perform in this more independent fashion offers a fiscally responsible option for hospitals to provide surgical and anesthesia services to their patients. Additionally, legislators "know" the value of an infinitely small effect size. Would you want to be the Governor who passes legislation that results in the immediate removal of services to hundreds of thousands of potential voters?
| | No. 223 |
May 06, 2007, 08:44 PM
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground? Originally Posted by CerebralCRNA Would you want to be the Governor who passes legislation that results in the immediate removal of services to hundreds of thousands of potential voters?
And this is exactly why over hte long term, the AANA will lose the smear campaign they are fighting against AAs. State legislatures over the long haul will not block AAs from practicing their trade simply because the AANA is afraid of competition for jobs.
Thats why the voted to allow CRNAs to practice when MDAs didnt want them to, and its also why they will eventually allow AAs to practice everywhere, despite the greed/selfish motivations of the AANA.
| | No. 224 |
May 07, 2007, 11:10 AM
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground? Originally Posted by platon20 .......Thats why the voted to allow CRNAs to practice when MDAs didnt want them to...........
You really need to study the history of anesthesia before you go on pontificating. Nurse anesthetists have long been the mainstay of American anesthesia, long before anesthesiologists discovered how much moola could be made performing our nursing duties.
CMS recognizes featherbedding when they see it.
| | No. 225 |
May 23, 2007, 09:40 AM
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground?
You nurses work hard. Therefore, you all believe that you should be at the top of the medical food chain. But guess what? You are not. You are not doctors or anywhere near the equivalent of doctors. If the prestige was so important to you, why didn't you just go to medical school? Did you really think you could back door your way into being a doctor? CRNAs had it great for quite a while. You all were making big $$ and had a great thing going. But now your greed has completely ruined it for you. You couldn't accept making 100K+ as a NURSE, you had to go after the anesthesiologists salary. You have bit the hand that feeds you, woke a sleeping giant and you will be squashed. AA programs will start rolling with full support from the ASA and they will replace you. Why? Because they are willing to do the job that you greedy nurses no longer want to do. Which is to be an anesthesia ASSISTANT. To HELP in the anesthesia care team model and not think they are captain of the ship. I will watch the CRNA empire fall over the next 10-20 years with a giant smile on my face. I will never hire or work with a CRNA and have many many residents starting out who have the same views. Bye bye big headed nurses... hope you enjoy going back to changing bed pans.
| | No. 226 |
May 25, 2007, 03:29 AM
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground?
I love this response. I am not a CRNA, just a hopeful. I was reading an anesthesiology forum and found it interesting to read what MD's are saying about CRNA's (basically it is similar to what CRNA's say about AA's). I decided that the anesthesiologist route was not for me because of the cost and the length of time I had to be in school. I was just curious to who often one would hear CRNA's compare themselves to an MD. It just seems like, well, stupid. I agree with your statement to the fullest. All I want to do is become a CRNA I know my boundaries.
| | No. 227 |
May 25, 2007, 08:36 AM
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground? Originally Posted by tifffear I love this response. I am not a CRNA, just a hopeful. I was reading an anesthesiology forum and found it interesting to read what MD's are saying about CRNA's (basically it is similar to what CRNA's say about AA's). I decided that the anesthesiologist route was not for me because of the cost and the length of time I had to be in school. I was just curious to who often one would hear CRNA's compare themselves to an MD. It just seems like, well, stupid. I agree with your statement to the fullest. All I want to do is become a CRNA I know my boundaries.
Those are completely understandable reasons to chose the CRNA route. It is a good career! But your militant co-workers are ruining it for everyone. Anesthesiology, aside from being a great job, has been a cash cow for everyone for years. Why is it so bad to continue working under supervision for well over 100K per year as a nurse? You joined the nursing profession to be a nurse, which is a very admirable profession. The word NURSE on a nursing board is used like it's a dirty word. Be proud of your profession but also understand that you are not the docs, no matter how much you think you know. So all of you militant CRNAs should try to learn something from tiff. Know your boundaries. If you want to be the top dog, just go to med school. Trust me, it's not all that it's cracked up to be.
| | No. 228 |
Jul 19, 2007, 01:15 AM
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground?
Thread Resurrection.
So a new AA program has opened at UMKC in Kansas City and I am seriously considering applying to it. My research has shown that AA's make about 80-100% of what CRNA's make in the local market. It has also shown that there is a lack of anesthesia providers in almost all regions. What little data that is available shows that the outcomes between AA's and CRNA's are fairly comparable.
If there was a surplus of anesthesia providers, I could see how AA's might be viewed as a threat. But since there is more than enough room, what is the harm of welcoming AA's into the fold? Is it a slippery slope argument, i.e., that once AA's start increasing in numbers the entire field of Nurse Anesthesists will be at risk?
| | No. 229 |
Nov 09, 2007, 07:46 PM
Re: Is the AA profession gaining ground? Originally Posted by jackson74 I've been a critical care nurse for 7 years I'm starting anesthesia school (CRNA) this aug. If you have ever precepted a new graduate RN into the ICU you understand the huge difference between individuals who have ICU experience and those that don't. 1st year AA students aren't even the functional equivalant of a new grad RN because the new graduate RN's have nursing school clinical experience to prepare them. AA's are required to have NO clinical experience! Personally, if I were going to AA school I would be terrified going in to the OR having no hemodynamic experience, experience with vents, vasoactive drips, IV's, and just monitoring patients. I guess if you don't know what you don't know it really wouldn't bother you then. 
Come on now, do you actually think that you go into AA school and on the first day take a trip into the OR blind with no experience at all. You are right that upon entry to the AA program, no clinical experience is necessary. That's exactly why there is 3x the clinical experience in AA school V.S. CRNA school, to prepare the individual who hasn't had the clinical experience of an RN. When comparing CRNA school and AA school, A CRNA must have a minimum of (450 ) hours of classroom/laboratory education, (800) hours of clinical anesthesia education, and administration of (450)anesthetics, including all types of surgery, must be achieved for the student to successfully complete the training program. An AA must have a minimum of (600) hours of classroom/laboratory education, (2600)hours of clinical anesthesia education, and more than (600) anesthetics administered, including all types of surgery, are required to successfully complete AA training. Also, until recently, nurses with only an associate’s degree in nursing were accepted. So does that mean that those individuals are not as qualified as a CRNA with BS in nursing, and should not practice? No. Like previously stated, show me the evidence that there is a difference in the outcome of patient care with respect to a CRNA vs. AA............you can't. Therefore AA's are just as important, qualified and needed by people around the world as CRNA's.
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