what can u say about doctors taking-up nursing

  1. i'm a lil bit worried that one day, we'll not be able to have a medical diagnosis on the chart and all but a nursing diagnosis for a fact that even doctors are taking up our course. what can u say about that? that it gives u any thought, same as i do? i'm really worried about our people.. other doctors are entering into our profession to gain profit and never mind their years of studying to gain more and more and more and more.....
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  2. 26 Comments

  3. by   FROGGYLEGS
    Quote from yousev
    i'm a lil bit worried that one day, we'll not be able to have a medical diagnosis on the chart and all but a nursing diagnosis for a fact that even doctors are taking up our course. what can u say about that? that it gives u any thought, same as i do? i'm really worried about our people.. other doctors are entering into our profession to gain profit and never mind their years of studying to gain more and more and more and more.....

    I'm not sure that I am following what you are trying to say. I personally don't know any doctors that switched over to nursing. I can't see why doctors would take up nursing for profit because I'm sure their salary is much higher than what a nurse makes.
  4. by   elkpark
    I'm sure that yousev is referring to the growing number of physicians in other (economically depressed) countries who are pursuing US nursing licensure because they can make much more as a nurse here than they can as a physician in their own countries (and they can't get licensed here as a physician). I'm not aware of any US-licensed MDs who are choosing to become nurses ...

    I don't think that will have any real effect on the role of the physician here as "director" of the healthcare team or the central importance of the medical diagnosis.
  5. by   FROGGYLEGS
    Quote from elkpark
    I'm sure that yousev is referring to the growing number of physicians in other (economically depressed) countries who are pursuing US nursing licensure because they can make much more as a nurse here than they can as a physician in their own countries (and they can't get licensed here as a physician). I'm not aware of any US-licensed MDs who are choosing to become nurses ...

    I don't think that will have any real effect on the role of the physician here as "director" of the healthcare team or the central importance of the medical diagnosis.

    That's interesting. I've never heard of foreign doctors coming to the US to be nurses either. I guess it makes sense though if they can't be US doctors. It would be interesting to know how that works. Ah well...learn something new every day and all that.
  6. by   suzanne4
    Froggylegs,
    There are actually several programs in Florida for foreign-trained physicians to become RNs. They have to take the same classes and sit for the NCLEX exam just like any other nurse. You also have to take into consideration that being a physician in many countries is quite similar to being a nurse in the US. Simple example, over here in Thailand, it is the physician that writes the assessment on the patient everyday, not the nurse.
    Many nurses over here are Master degree prepared, so they have gone to school for the same amount of time as the physicians here.
    In the Philippines, as well as other countries over, the salaries for physicians are quite low. A doctor can actually make much more money as a nurse in the US, approximately three times the amount. What would you do if you were in the same place as them and had a family to provide for. Doctors in many other countries do not live like the doctors do in the US.

    Hope that this helps explain some things for you.
  7. by   yousev
    QOUTE

    I'm sure that yousev is referring to the growing number of physicians in other (economically depressed) countries who are pursuing US nursing licensure because they can make much more as a nurse here than they can as a physician in their own countries (and they can't get licensed here as a physician). I'm not aware of any US-licensed MDs who are choosing to become nurses ...

    Yup! elkpark got it! i'm referring to those MDs rendering their services in other economically depressed countries, particularly the Philippines. i have much to say this time around. MDs in the Philippines were only allowed to study NUrsing for only 2 years.. MD-BSN is what they called it. and they were about approximately 100-300 MDs graduating every year in any nursing schools in the Philippines. and those regular BSN students were neglected due to lack of clinical instructors because of supervising or should i say giving much importance to those MDs rather than those regular BSN students... for a fact that those MDs are paying much of their tuition fees compared to the regular BSN students. to tell u, last december board exam an MD made it as a board topnotcher. and the Philippine Nurses Association got dismayed because most on the list of that december board were filled-in by those MDs and only a few BSN grad made it... and so the Board of NUrsing made the board exam difficult for those MDs and those poor newly grad BSn had no choice but to take that exam even how hard it is and that is all because those MDs... and i pity those BSN students who are now neglected because of those MDs who are entering into our field.. i pity them dearly.. why? because i am one of them.. i am one who had experienced being neglected by our C.I's because of them.. but thanks to them for without those people... we will not be able to learn to depend on ourselves.. that we can do nursing procedures without their supervision... thanks to those staff nurses in different hospitals for helping us do things which those C.Is cannot provide to us. luckily, i am already graduated.
    Last edit by yousev on Apr 24, '04
  8. by   yousev
    For Ma'am Suzanne,

    What would i do if i'm like them? i'd rather do my stuff as a doctor than competing with the new BSN graduates. u might be thinking that i'm saying this because i'm one of those newly graduates hoping to find a better pose in this world but even perhaps i'm not in my position to think about that.. i'd probably say what i've said and is saying right now...though man is free to choose whatever road they want to take, i don't think it's clean and proper to jump over into the other if you're taste wasn't been satisfied with what u have... how can a doctor cure his patients if he doesn't have a passion for his job (that he was there because of money not because of the kind of service u ought to do)? how can an architect do well his job constructing a design for a building if he himself doesn't know really the road he's heading for? how could u entrust a case to a lawyer who cannot even think that he could defend the oppressed even without money involving to it (call it a charity)? what i'm saying here is that, everybody had a choice of entering into something pleasent for survival and i'm not taking that right away from those MDs... but i think it's obvious that they're more self-centered than anything else... simply for thinking more of themselves than those people who needed them most. who would take care of those people, left in the hands of a quak doctors? how could an MD be a caring nurse to a foreign land who had left his burdened patients in his country?
    Last edit by yousev on Apr 24, '04
  9. by   suzanne4
    But then what are you saying about all of the nurses from the Philippines who are leaving to go to work in the US, Australia, or Europe...............Is it not the for the same premise, to take care of themselves better? I have been a nurse in the US for over 25 years and now live over here in Thailand trying to make a change for the better with the healthcare system, slowly, one day at a time.

    People need to be able to make a choice as to what they want to do......
    and yes, I am in contact with physicians in the Philippines who are in the process of making the change. Also, take into consideration that if a physician is lucky enough to get a residency in the US, he/she must return to their home country for a minimum of two years after, before being allowed to return to the US. This is waived only for special cases. And then they have to go through the USMLE exams before even being considered to be able to return. However, as a nurse, you are granted a green card, permanent residency, almost as soon as you complete the appropriate exams including English. There will always be nurses that want to go to medical school and change to other professions, why can't physicians? Everyone shoud have a choice.................perhaps governments will make it better for their doctors to stay. Look at the work hours that many physicians are working where you are? I personally could not work as a nurse here in Thailand, they actually get scheduled for all three shifts in each week, at the whim of the manager, and it is considered normal, the way that it has always been done. I would like to change that also, but things move slowly. I have been out in the real world for much longer than you....................wait until after you are working for awhile.............................I think that you will look at things differently.
  10. by   elkpark
    I think also of the many people who post on this site, asking about how much money can they make as nurses, and which are the best-paid specialties? It seems like many of the people who are interested in going into nursing here in the US are largely interested in the money. I think also of the many foreign nurses who post here, asking about how they can come to work in the US because they know they will make much more money than they can at home. Is it wrong for them to want to better themselves and their families? You say that you are already a BSN graduate -- were you planning on donating your services for the betterment of society, and working for free? I doubt it ... Did you not go to nursing school to create a better future for yourself? It is a shame that economic conditions in some other countries have created more competition in nursing programs, but, as you said, people are free to make their own choices in life. You stated, "i don't think it's clean and proper to jump over into the other if you're taste wasn't been satisfied with what u have... ," but many people change careers here in the US, for many different reasons. Some nurses here choose to go to med school and become physicians, or go to law school and become attorneys. Should they not be allowed to, because they started out as nurses?

    Suzanne4 makes a good point -- if the appeal of nursing in the US does drain other countries of their physicians, then the other countries will have to make it more attractive for their physicians to stay "home" and practice medicine ... It's called the law of supply and demand.

    It is a difficult situation, though, and I don't know of any simple or easy answers. Best wishes for your career choices (whatever they may be!)
  11. by   yousev
    Our eyes were focused on different lingoes… of different problems, solutions down to innovations and such researches. Unknowingly, we often forget the most indispensable thing on earth and that is our integrity and sincerity in everything we do today.

    We are now in a fast-changing world where everything is almost seen, sometimes it’s hard as one could ever imagine. Everybody is busy wanting to have something for life… for their subsistence… and in our existence, everything is a bout. There is a sense behind those written words.

    Truly that a person is free from taking what road he wants. But what about those people who don’t have satisfaction in what they have? In what they have been? In what they are doing? Questions arise amidst my failing mind and heart to understand.

    If all people submit their professions for the sake of greener pasteur, what about those people that need them the most? What about those beings wanting not just their service but also their heart for service? I believe that one can never render enough service if it is not deeply rooted into his heart nor can never be happy. Given the chance to revise dictionaries, I will exclude the word " in-demand " for it’s just but a result of society’s dictates – is somewhat a shambles.

    I’m not convincing myself neither do I care to find by feeling because of the word " in-demand", everyone is bounded by this virtual blindness out of fear and the vastness of life seems no meaning, soundless and uncompensated. Maybe happiness is perfection personified or can be a dream come true. I know happiness means enjoying the simple pleasures of life. But where exactly can it be found? Considering that everything in this world is not simple anymore, not even just at once or never will it be.

    I, then believe and imagine that if all people will never be satisfied or maybe failed to know and feel what they really wanted to have, not even a dying reptile could be saved… How much more our future dreamers????
    Last edit by yousev on Apr 24, '04
  12. by   suzanne4
    You have just finished your training. Do you know exactly where you are going to be five years from now, or exactly what area of nursing that you will be working in? No one can answer that right now, not even you.................

    If you would meet and fall in love with someone from another country; are you willing to tell me that you would never give up your nursing career in the Philippines to move to another country? All of us were and still are quite idealistic when we finish school and are out to save the world, but things change for all of us. Families come, as well as responsibilities.

  13. by   Rep
    I have nothing against doctors taking up nursing because they want to move to the US someday. They have all the right to take it if they really want to become nurses someday.

    What is disappointing is that this group tend to get special treatment from the schools and clinical instructors at the sacrifice of those regular students who have to toil for four years to get their BSN degree.

    The doctors have only 1 and a half year to get their degree. What is also disappointing is that these students ( doctors ) never undergo the same training that we have as regular nurses..

    I am a BSN-RN. But presently working as a pharmaceutical sales representative. I get in contact with doctors everyday. In my city, there are about 300 doctors here, there are about 90 taking up nursing. In my talks with them, they told me that they didn't know how to do bedmaking. Or give spongebath to patients. They only know a few of bedside nursing.

    When they have nursing assignments like how to chart a SOAPIE. Guess who are doing the assignments? Their nurses at their clinics. Even their NPI notebooks are filled up by nurses. I am witness to these incidents in my visits to doctors' clinics.

    Yousev is right. The Philippines Nursing Board has revised its examination format just to make it a little difficult to the doctors to the detriment of the regular students. When doctors started taking up nursing 4 years ago, no regular BSN was able to place top at the exams.

    As for the financial situation. For goverment employed doctors, the salaries are not so good. But for those who have private practices, its different. These are the doctors who have two or three cars, with big beautiful houses and can go vacationing in Europe or the States annually.

    I believe that doctors who will go into nursing because of monetary reason will not last long. Once they get their green cards, they will leave nursing and look for other jobs.

    Another think to ponder. Here in the Philippines, doctors do not look kindly to nurses. To them nurses are just servants to carry out their orders. They will not ask the nurses for opinions regarding patients care. They don't want competent nurses handling their patients but slaves who are willing to do their bidding. And that is a FACT! :angryfire
    Last edit by Rep on Apr 25, '04
  14. by   yousev
    it's nice to know that there are still people who can sense my sentiments.. for someone who's seeing this scenerio can really understand. it really hits me knowing that MDs here in the Philippines are trying their best to get away with our loosen-driven country. and what ur saying regarding MDs here ARE TRUE!!!!! they're treating nurses not as a part of their health team actually but a maid. it's all true!!!! hope others would understand even bettter what we're saying here now. it's not being selfish on our part to not allow MDs to take up nursing course but it's really alarming. if only people outside our country would see those far flung areas here... no doctors, no nurses, don't even have midwives... perhaps, u would also understand. though this scenario is happening because of the kind of gov't that this country have, partly, it's because of the MDs aiming for more and not of mere service.

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