Community College Selection Process-What A Joke! - page 9

I am one of those middle-aged students who just applied for the Nursing Program at my local college. I was very careful to pick a college that based their selection process on merit. However, the... Read More

  1. by   Sheri257
    Quote from NurseIsANurse
    I've met some incompetent nurses in the health care field...and THEY WERE TOP STUDENTS in nursing school....Every situation is different and I don't think that all C students are set up to failing while all A students are set up for success....
    Well ... it depends on how you define success. If we're talking about who's actually going to make it through nursing school then, there's little question that the A student has better odds of making it than the C student.

    I personally have never seen an A student flunk out of the program but, there's been plenty of C students who didn't make it ... mostly because just about everybody drops a letter grade at one point or another when they get into the tougher NS curriculum.

    Everybody's got some story about an A student who sucked at clinical but, I seriously doubt that all of them do ... and, with the exception of maybe one person, that certainly wasn't the case in my class.

    At the end of the day, all that really matters is who is going to make it through the program. Even if a C student has the potential to make a great nurse, that ultimately isn't going to mean anything if they can't make it through the program.

    The question here is: if you've got a ton of people waiting to get in, do you waste time, money and resources on people who have a lesser chance of making it? Or, do you give the people who have proven themselves a better chance at those slots?

    From a purely practical standpoint ... you go with the grades because that's ultimately what it takes to get through NS. And the hospitals, which do the hiring, know this.

    This is why GPA is big part of the hospitals' criteria when they pay for people to get into my CC program.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jan 23, '07
  2. by   nursinguy
    Quote from NurseIsANurse
    What does IQ have to do with nursing school? Is that a new thing that they're requiring? Just because someone gets good grades doesn't mean that they're going to have a high IQ than someone who doesn't. You're just assuming that....
    Only a few people passed my A&P class with a A. There where 3 actually and all had 130+ IQ.
    I've met some incompetent nurses in the health care field...and THEY WERE TOP STUDENTS in nursing school....Every situation is different and I don't think that all C students are set up to failing while all A students are set up for success....I'm sorry you didn't get in nursing school....and you obviously worked hard for your grades...but don't blame it on the C students who got in through the lottery system....blame it on the college or the California government....whoever regulates this...
    I got into Sacramneto State University Nursing, so I'm puzzled at what your talking about.

    All the people that got A's in Chem, A&P, Micro got in as well. I'll let you know if the come out of Nursing with Honors, I suspect they will, there the cream of the crop and the cream always rises to the Top.
  3. by   Sheri257
    Quote from nursinguy
    Only a few people passed my A&P class with a A. There where 3 actually and all had 130+ IQ.

    I got into Sacramneto State University Nursing, so I'm puzzled at what your talking about.

    All the people that got A's in Chem, A&P, Micro got in as well. I'll let you know if the come out of Nursing with Honors, I suspect they will, there the cream of the crop and the cream always rises to the Top.
    Well ... this is over the top ..... (pun intended) .

    Look: I graduated NS second in my class but, I don't think A students are better than everybody else either, which is what you seem to be implying here. Yes, the book knowledge does matter, a lot ... particularly in getting through nursing school.

    But, just as people go to one extreme and say booksmarts doesn't matter much ... you can't say that it's the only thing that matters either.

    I don't know how far you've gone in school or, how much clinical experience you have but, at least from my experience, it can also be somewhat of a challenge applying that book knowledge in the clinical setting.

    For one thing, the books don't always agree on how to do things. The facility, the RN's, MD's, etc. may have a different way of doing things apart from that and, many times, you only learn things from experience, not the books.

    That is, afterall, why they also put us through clinicals so ... I wouldn't jump on some high horse about A students being the cream of the crop because, quite frankly, arrogance in this business is just as dangerous as ignorance.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jan 23, '07
  4. by   nursinguy
    Quote from lizz
    Well ... this is over the top ..... (pun intended) .

    Look: I graduated NS second in my class but, I don't think A students are better than everybody else either, which is what you seem to be implying here. Yes, the book knowledge does matter, a lot ... particularly in getting through nursing school.

    But, just as people go to one extreme and say booksmarts doesn't matter much ... you can't say that it's the only thing that matters either.

    I don't know how far you've gone in school or, how much clinical experience you have but, at least from my experience, it can also be somewhat of a challenge applying that book knowledge in the clinical setting.

    For one thing, the books don't always agree on how to do things. The facility, the RN's, MD's, etc. may have a different way of doing things apart from that and, many times, you only learn things from experience, not the books.

    That is, afterall, why they also put us through clinicals so ... I wouldn't jump on some high horse about A students being the cream of the crop because, quite frankly, arrogance in this business is just as dangerous as ignorance.

    :typing
    I understand what you are saying. What I was trying to imply is that all the A students I know are well rounded people and their critical thinking is top notch. This ability they have trancends pure book knowledge. They are able to adapt and infer what the correct answer will be, even if its not in a book or tought in lecture.
    Last edit by nursinguy on Jan 23, '07
  5. by   novermyhead
    I went through the exact same thing at my local community college. I was placed on an alternate list. There were some applicants who I knew were not as up to snuff as I was as far as GPA, the time the app was submitted etc. etc. etc. the exact same day that I recieved my letter informing me that I was placed on the alternate list, I cried, cried, cried and cried again to make sure that I was finished crying before I went to the local University and applied for their school of nursing. By the end of the sememster I was informed by the University that I had been accepted into their program. I agree, the community colleges are alot smaller and the slots are limited. So therefore instead of the selection process being as fair as they claim it is, I beleive that they pick and choose. How can you do everything that is expected from you, and excel and still get bypassed in the selection process???
  6. by   serrdon
    I definitely agree in theory that GPA should be the major consideration for acceptance, however, it does hurt me. Not because I am lacking intelligence, and I definitely would be great as a nurse, but because I am going into this as a second career. All the classes I have taken for my gen ed, science classes, etc. have all been easily above the 3.0 category. However, I am held back by my grades from almost 20 YEARS ago. Back then I wasn't mature enough to go to nursing school (not that I wanted to!) but it is a shame that I am going to have such trouble getting in now from my immaturity from so long ago. I understand that it's one of life's lessons- too bad it's too late to learn from it!
  7. by   nursinguy
    Quote from serrdon
    I definitely agree in theory that GPA should be the major consideration for acceptance, however, it does hurt me. Not because I am lacking intelligence, and I definitely would be great as a nurse, but because I am going into this as a second career. All the classes I have taken for my gen ed, science classes, etc. have all been easily above the 3.0 category. However, I am held back by my grades from almost 20 YEARS ago. Back then I wasn't mature enough to go to nursing school (not that I wanted to!) but it is a shame that I am going to have such trouble getting in now from my immaturity from so long ago. I understand that it's one of life's lessons- too bad it's too late to learn from it!
    This is why it should be manditory in every college that they inform freshmen that you grades will be held against you for the rest of your life, because they can be.
  8. by   Sheri257
    Quote from nursinguy
    I understand what you are saying. What I was trying to imply is that all the A students I know are well rounded people and their critical thinking is top notch. This ability they have trancends pure book knowledge. They are able to adapt and infer what the correct answer will be, even if its not in a book or tought in lecture.
    And you know this how? From your posts, it doesn't sound like you guys have even started nursing school yet.

    :typing
  9. by   nursinguy
    Quote from lizz
    And you know this how? From your posts, it doesn't sound like you guys have even started nursing school yet.

    :typing
    Friends that have passed the nursing program. I personaly just started today.
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from nursinguy
    Friends that have passed the nursing program. I personaly just started today.
    Maybe you should check out the new grad forum ... a lot of them are shell shocked by the realities of the job. You'll often see comments like .... "this is nothing like nursing school."

    There's a big difference between what you experience in school and actually being an RN on your own.

    My point being: maybe you should hold off on making brash statements like "A students are the cream of the crop" until you actually hit the floor and get into it.

    I worked as much as I could during school as an extern and, by the time I got to preceptorship I was taking a full load of patients. I would NEVER in a million years think that I was the "cream of the crop" just because I was a good student.

    It's a very tough job and it can be very humbling ... no matter what kind of grades you make.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jan 24, '07
  11. by   nursinguy
    Quote from lizz
    Maybe you should check out the new grad forum ... a lot of them are shell shocked by the realities of the job. You'll often see comments like .... "this is nothing like nursing school."

    There's a big difference between what you experience in school and actually being an RN on your own.

    My point being: maybe you should hold off on making brash statements like "A students are the cream of the crop" until you actually hit the floor and get into it.

    I worked as much as I could during school as an extern and, by the time I got to preceptorship I was taking a full load of patients. I would NEVER in a million years think that I was the "cream of the crop" just because I was a good student.

    It's a very tough job and it can be very humbling ... no matter what kind of grades you make.

    :typing
    I'm cocky. I passed our colleges hardest A&P, Micro and Chemestry classes highest grade in the class and some them told me I achieved the highest grade in their class in 20 years. Yes nursing will be hard but these teachers have had nurses come back and tell them that none the nursing classes were as hard as their class. So I'm pretty confident.
  12. by   smk1
    Quote from nursinguy
    I'm cocky. I passed our colleges hardest A&P, Micro and Chemestry classes highest grade in the class and some them told me I achieved the highest grade in their class in 20 years. Yes nursing will be hard but these teachers have had nurses come back and tell them that none the nursing classes were as hard as their class. So I'm pretty confident.
    It is a good sign that you did well in the prerequisites. Nursing school has a much greater mix of subjective information than any of the prereqs. I love the more concrete concepts with the heavy A&P focus and drug/chemical info. The problem comes in when you have one week to read 400 pages and every small detail better be remembered because the test is 20 questions. On top of this reading, you have careplans and other nursing classes where there are assignments, reading, and tests and clinical preparation. The time crunch is what gets you, and questions about "priority". You get questions where all of the answers are correct, but you have to pick the "most" correct. Seems simple right? Nope, because unless it is question involving airway,breathing and circulation, it can be very subjective. Etc... I am not saying it isn't doable, or even that it is more academically difficult, but a lot of factors make it "harder" for most. A solid foundation in A&P really comes in handy because I can just skim the extra reading that is A&P or chem/micro review (saves time!).
  13. by   nursinguy
    Quote from SMK1
    It is a good sign that you did well in the prerequisites. Nursing school has a much greater mix of subjective information than any of the prereqs. I love the more concrete concepts with the heavy A&P focus and drug/chemical info. The problem comes in when you have one week to read 400 pages and every small detail better be remembered because the test is 20 questions. On top of this reading, you have careplans and other nursing classes where there are assignments, reading, and tests and clinical preparation. The time crunch is what gets you, and questions about "priority". You get questions where all of the answers are correct, but you have to pick the "most" correct. Seems simple right? Nope, because unless it is question involving airway,breathing and circulation, it can be very subjective. Etc... I am not saying it isn't doable, or even that it is more academically difficult, but a lot of factors make it "harder" for most. A solid foundation in A&P really comes in handy because I can just skim the extra reading that is A&P or chem/micro review (saves time!).
    Aye!

    This is where me taking 20 units a semester and reading 1500 pages a week or so will come in handy. I'm already used to this as my A&P, Chem teacher required U.C. level work, included formal prelabs, formal labs which take 5-6 hours a piece, 20 hours homework a week, remembering fine detial and critical thinking on hundreds of chem/A&P reading. Doctors had a hard time passing some there classes in their pre-med work. As I said before my Chem teacher said only 2 of my nursing classes where as hard as her class, but they wernt harder. She knows this by several former students coming back after they graduated and telling her. She was the hardest teacher I ever had and I'm glad I had her, I'm confidant that she is right and Nursing classes will be much easyer than her class in which I got the highest grade in the class.

    My former A&P and Micro teacher also had pick all that apply, and pick the best answer, so I'm fully capable of passing these questions. It was hard but I was able to pull serveral perfect scores which my teacher said she has never had a student do.

    I'm a little puffed up, but I blame my teachers for the wonderfull instruction they gave me. Also thanks to God for giving me the mind he has blessed me with, for truely I can doing nothing without him.

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