Community College Selection Process-What A Joke! - page 8

I am one of those middle-aged students who just applied for the Nursing Program at my local college. I was very careful to pick a college that based their selection process on merit. However, the... Read More

  1. by   FockerInTraining
    Quote from Tim1957
    You Know Focker,

    I have stayed away from this topic for weeks now. However because of your logic expressed in the last posting I am going to make an exception. The C average students drop like flies the first semester. Why? Because they either lack the excellent study habits needed or the intellectual capacity to overcome the rigors of the nursing program.
    Tim,

    I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on who is right or wrong, I truly do understand where you are coming from. I just don't understand how you can sit there and say that students with a C average lack excellent study habits or the intellectual capacity to overcome the rigors of NS. Are you freaking kidding me???
    So because a single mom of 3 kids that has trouble finding daycare (like I see on this board at least once a week) has a hard time during pre-reqs she shouldn't be allowed the opportunity to advance? I think you have your priorities a bit backwards, how does it not make you feel good inside to know that folks that may not have the traditional chance of "All A's and your in" are able to succeed? Maybe it's just my naivete, but I enjoy reading people's stories of overcoming their hardships to make it in NS.

    And another thing, I know for a fact you wouldn't have posted a thing about the lottery system if you had gotten in the first time. So don't try and act like a martyr about how its so unfair for everyone else when deep down you only care about yourself.
  2. by   FockerInTraining
    Quote from nursinguy
    What I'm saying is some people are more qauilified than others, IQ can be one of way people can meet the qaulifications they need to get into the program. Not everyone is equal, so some deserve to get in and others excluded based on these qaulifications. A smarter person makes for a better nurse rather than a dumber one.
    So what you're saying is that people with low IQ's shouldn't be allowed in NS? You are right, not everyone is equal, but it is that inequality that makes this field so remarkable. Why are you trying to make this a job where everyone is the same, when no other job has the same requirements? Where does it go after the IQ requirement? Perhaps no foreign nurses in U.S hospitals. Or maybe to work in L&D you must have had a child. Perhaps only women should be allowed to be nurses.

    My point is why try to base a requirement on something you can't really change. Sure you can go to school and gain some knowledge, but you're highly unlikely to change your IQ by the time you're in college. It all comes down to passing and not passing, and how you got to that point is just details.
  3. by   Tim1957
    Quote from FockerInTraining
    Tim,

    I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on who is right or wrong, I truly do understand where you are coming from. I just don't understand how you can sit there and say that students with a C average lack excellent study habits or the intellectual capacity to overcome the rigors of NS. Are you freaking kidding me???
    So because a single mom of 3 kids that has trouble finding daycare (like I see on this board at least once a week) has a hard time during pre-reqs she shouldn't be allowed the opportunity to advance? I think you have your priorities a bit backwards, how does it not make you feel good inside to know that folks that may not have the traditional chance of "All A's and your in" are able to succeed? Maybe it's just my naivete, but I enjoy reading people's stories of overcoming their hardships to make it in NS.

    And another thing, I know for a fact you wouldn't have posted a thing about the lottery system if you had gotten in the first time. So don't try and act like a martyr about how its so unfair for everyone else when deep down you only care about yourself.
    No you do not know that for a fact. There is a very large list of top level students just waiting to get in. And some of them are very close friends. Did you happen to miss the posting of the Bee article? This issue is not going away. You mention overcoming hardships, well there Focker, it is very easy to overcome when the muckered down standards require you to only jump two inches. As for your your personal insult in the last
    paragraph, I will contribute that to your youth and your tendacy towards rashness. You have much to learn young one.
  4. by   caliotter3
    Tim's situation is precisely why the powers in California should never have gone against the Excelsior program. There is absolutely no excuse for keeping people like this out of nursing when Excelsior was another avenue, in addition to keeping a system that was fair at the local college. It is fair to accept the top 5% and lottery a certain number of seats.
  5. by   Beverage
    Quote from NurseIsANurse
    ...Just because you're a not so good students when it comes to book work doesn't mean you're set up for failure in nursing school....
    14 students didn't progress into the 2nd semester of my ADN school. 3 dropped midway (reason unknown to me), 11 failed the course because their grades were less than the required 75.5%

    What this says to me is that my class has 3 more semesters to go and there are 14 empty spots which translates into 14 fewer RN's graduating in my class May 2008.
  6. by   macmac
    TIM HAVE YOU TRIED ? WWW.IUON.ORG WELL YOU DO 3 SEMESTERS IN THE CARRIBEAN. THEN YOU BRIDGE OVER TO THE U.S W AN ACCREDITED NURSING SCHOOL, BY THE NLN. NEXT SESSION STARTS IN MAY. SO BY THE TIME YOU'RE DONE, YOU'LL BE TAKING YOUR NCLEX-RN NEXT YEAR .THERE'S NO WAITING LIST. I GOT IN. IF YOU WANTED TO WORK IN CALIFORNIA EITHER ENDORSE THE NCLEX RN OR APPLY TO SIT IN FOR NCLEX HERE IN SAC. BY THE WAY I HAVE A 3.5 GPA AND A BACHELORS AND DID WELL IN ALL MY PRE REQS. I APPLIED TO 4 SCHOOLS AND STILL DIDN'T GET IT. I COULD THINK OF A MILLION REASONS, BUT I'M TOO TIRED AND BURNED OUT TO ARGUE WITH THE GOVERNOR OR THE PRESIDENT. POLITICS , POLITICS...GOOD LUCK MARK
  7. by   Sheri257
    Quote from FockerInTraining
    So because a single mom of 3 kids that has trouble finding daycare (like I see on this board at least once a week) has a hard time during pre-reqs she shouldn't be allowed the opportunity to advance? I think you have your priorities a bit backwards, how does it not make you feel good inside to know that folks that may not have the traditional chance of "All A's and your in" are able to succeed? Maybe it's just my naivete, but I enjoy reading people's stories of overcoming their hardships to make it in NS.
    While I definitely see your point here, I think you're forgetting the fact that there are a lot of people with kids, work, etc. who also make good grades yet, they're pushed back to the end of the line because of the lottery system.

    The reality is: grades are, in fact, a pretty good predictor of NS success. While some C students certainly have the ability to step up a make it, others don't. It's not unusual for people to drop a letter grade once they get to NS. So, if you're a C student to begin with, there's no question that the risk of failing is higher.

    Most of the students who failed in my program were C students to begin with. And, to be honest with you, a lot of them did not take it seriously and apply themselves until it was too late in the semester. That, more than any other factor (work, kids, etc.) was the reason they failed, IMO.

    You're also missing another key point: while some of the students who failed did have work, kids, etc. not all of them did. Some of them were younger students who didn't have any kids and were living at home with virtually no bills at all. Others had kids but were on welfare, financial aide, etc. and had boyfriends with good paying jobs so ... they didn't have to work at all.

    Meanwhile, there were just as many people with kids who had to work and had even more burdens yet, they still manged to make good grades. If a working mother is busting her tail and still manages to make good grades but, she loses a slot to another student who's just scraping by and flunks out (and believe me, this does happen) ... that's definitely not fair either.

    BTW: it costs the state approximately $30K to educate the average CC nursing student. So ... it's not just a fairness issue but, also, a taxpayer issue. A lot of taxpayer dollars are wasted with the lottery system.

    This is why the hospitals, which are paying that $30K per student to enroll more people in my CC program, are using grades as part of their criteria. They don't want to lose money on their investment and, grades are the best way to ensure that their money isn't wasted.

    It's ironic but ... while grades aren't part of the official CC criteria, that's exactly what the hospitals are doing to get extra students into the same program.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jan 22, '07
  8. by   nursinguy
    Quote from NurseIsANurse
    That is sooooooooooo not true....some person might not be book smart, but they might be better at hands on....and someone might be book smart, but their hands on, they don't seem to get....My book smart is about average, I'm definately not the cream of the pot...but when it came to hands on, I'm at the top....If schools in my area used the lottery system I'd be thrilled...but I can certainly see how someone who works hard in school and gets excellent grades could be frustrated and with good reason...Just because someone isn't book smart DOES NOT MAKE THEM DUMB....
    So someone with a 70 IQ can do the same level or work as a nurse as someone with a 150 IQ?
  9. by   nursinguy
    Quote from FockerInTraining
    So what you're saying is that people with low IQ's shouldn't be allowed in NS? You are right, not everyone is equal, but it is that inequality that makes this field so remarkable. Why are you trying to make this a job where everyone is the same, when no other job has the same requirements? Where does it go after the IQ requirement? Perhaps no foreign nurses in U.S hospitals. Or maybe to work in L&D you must have had a child. Perhaps only women should be allowed to be nurses.
    Originaly nursing was a male only profession.
    My point is why try to base a requirement on something you can't really change. Sure you can go to school and gain some knowledge, but you're highly unlikely to change your IQ by the time you're in college. It all comes down to passing and not passing, and how you got to that point is just details.
    Yes but there are too few spots, there has to be criteria to exclude people.
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from NurseIsANurse
    That is sooooooooooo not true....some person might not be book smart, but they might be better at hands on....and someone might be book smart, but their hands on, they don't seem to get....My book smart is about average, I'm definately not the cream of the pot...but when it came to hands on, I'm at the top....If schools in my area used the lottery system I'd be thrilled...but I can certainly see how someone who works hard in school and gets excellent grades could be frustrated and with good reason...Just because someone isn't book smart DOES NOT MAKE THEM DUMB....
    Or somebody may be better hands on, but still kill a patient because they weren't booksmart.

    Case in point: a nurse failed to realize that the doc had ordered a lethal overdose of lidocaine during a code and, since she apparently forget that info which, btw, was emphasized pretty heavily in our program ... she gave it ... and the patient died.

    There's some pretty important stuff in those books. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to be great at "hands on" if you don't know this stuff ... especially in a situation like this.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jan 22, '07
  11. by   nursinguy
    Quote from lizz
    Or somebody may be better hands on, but still kill a patient because they weren't booksmart.

    Case in point: a nurse failed to realize that the doc had ordered a lethal overdose of lidocaine during a code and, since she apparently forget that info which, btw, was emphasized pretty heavily in our program ... she gave it ... and the patient died.

    There's some pretty important stuff in those books. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to be great at "hands on" if you don't know this stuff ... especially in a situation like this.

    :typing
    This is exactly what I have been saying.

    I have seen quite a few people barley pass A&P and other pass with a A, hands down I feel safer with the person that got the A. They know there stuff backwards and forwards and inside out and have the critical thinking a nurse needs, I can not say that about the C people.
  12. by   Sheri257
    Quote from nursinguy
    This is exactly what I have been saying.

    I have seen quite a few people barley pass A&P and other pass with a A, hands down I feel safer with the person that got the A. They know there stuff backwards and forwards and inside out and have the critical thinking a nurse needs, I can not say that about the C people.
    Yeah ... when we were quizzed on the cardiac drug dosages our instructor told us that lidocaine story, which had happened at one of the local hospitals, and he said we better know those dosages backwards and forwards.

    But, when it came down to it ... one girl didn't know the dosages and stated .... "I'm just not very good with numbers."

    We were stunned ... and, even worse, the instructor let her slide on it. This is a student who had already failed one semester and had to repeat. But, of course, she's a young, cute girl who wears short shirts and loves to flirt with gullible male instructors ... all too typical.

    We did complain about it to the head of the nursing program but, it didn't make an difference since the instructor has tenure. We'll see if she passes her boards.

    When you think about the people who study very hard who have to wait in line while airheads who barely scrape by are wasting seats in the program ...

    Well .... it is pretty sickening.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jan 23, '07
  13. by   NurseCubanitaRN2b
    Quote from nursinguy
    So someone with a 70 IQ can do the same level or work as a nurse as someone with a 150 IQ?
    What does IQ have to do with nursing school? Is that a new thing that they're requiring? Just because someone gets good grades doesn't mean that they're going to have a high IQ than someone who doesn't. You're just assuming that....

    I've met some incompetent nurses in the health care field...and THEY WERE TOP STUDENTS in nursing school....Every situation is different and I don't think that all C students are set up to failing while all A students are set up for success....I'm sorry you didn't get in nursing school....and you obviously worked hard for your grades...but don't blame it on the C students who got in through the lottery system....blame it on the college or the California government....whoever regulates this...

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