Community College Selection Process-What A Joke! - page 6

I am one of those middle-aged students who just applied for the Nursing Program at my local college. I was very careful to pick a college that based their selection process on merit. However, the... Read More

  1. by   turbohound
    Tim, nothing sucks more than the lottery system for the reasons that you described. But I think you've been misinformed about the Chancellor's Model. It isn't lottery based, it's grade based. The only inputs the school can vary are the pre-req courses and the cut score. I have a copy of the statistical model used to compute the applicant's score. It's also posted on San Joaquim Delta College's RN website at Delta College Health Sciences: ADN Program (on the left under "Acceptance Formula"). Delta was one of the test sites selected for early adoption of the model. I have decent grades (3.7 pre-reqs, 3.4 overall), and I got in for spring '07 with an 86. With your grades, you should end up with an even higher score (90+). And starting in fall 2007, any California Community College which accepts money from the state has to use the Model for its Nursing program. So next fall you'll be in. In the mean time, call up the school and find out where you are on the alternate list. You could be next in line for a call from admissions. Whether its spring or next fall you're almost there.
  2. by   Tim1957
    Quote from turbohound
    Tim, nothing sucks more than the lottery system for the reasons that you described. But I think you've been misinformed about the Chancellor's Model. It isn't lottery based, it's grade based. The only inputs the school can vary are the pre-req courses and the cut score. I have a copy of the statistical model used to compute the applicant's score. It's also posted on San Joaquim Delta College's RN website at Delta College Health Sciences: ADN Program (on the left under "Acceptance Formula"). Delta was one of the test sites selected for early adoption of the model. I have decent grades (3.7 pre-reqs, 3.4 overall), and I got in for spring '07 with an 86. With your grades, you should end up with an even higher score (90+). And starting in fall 2007, any California Community College which accepts money from the state has to use the Model for its Nursing program. So next fall you'll be in. In the mean time, call up the school and find out where you are on the alternate list. You could be next in line for a call from admissions. Whether its spring or next fall you're almost there.
    Well i have to disagree with you. The chancellor;s model is only grade based as far as the cut score, at least that's how it is being presented at MJC.Some People with a score of 75 got in this semester. They had only applied in the fall for their first time. Now Stockton's system is grade based.If my transportation was not so bad I would have applied their also. And I am well aware of it. I used their formula one night to compute my own raw score.
    What is being presented at MJC is not what is presented on SJDC's web site. However I am interested on why you believe it is the same.
    Last edit by Tim1957 on Dec 16, '06 : Reason: Spelling and left out some words
  3. by   Tim1957
    it seems i am not the only one in modesto that is unhappy with this selection process. following is a letter to the editor of our local paper. i believe i know this girl. she is very capable and would be asset to any nursing staff.


    last updated: december 14, 2006, 05:15:26 am pst
    [font=times]i find it ridiculous that a large institute such as modesto junior college only offers one nursing class a semester.
    [font=times]i am an emergency room technician trying to become a nurse. for the fall semester, i was 44th on the waiting list; others
    [font=times]who have been waiting longer were behind me. some, like me, teach nursing students how to do their jobs. now i am
    [font=times]84th on the waiting list. with more than six years experience in the medical field, i cannot get into the program.
    [font=times]there are shortages in the nursing field and not very many deserving people can get in. at some schools, unless you live
    [font=times]in their community you are told not to apply. how fair is that? we need more classes, not fewer.
    [font=times]lara kelly[font=times]
    [font=times]modesto


    i was wondering if there are any groups fighting this selection process or is this a david vs goliath type of scenario? it just seems like some group somewhere should be doing something! if any one knows of such a group, please let me know.
  4. by   FockerInTraining
    Quote from tim1957
    it seems i am not the only one in modesto that is unhappy with this selection process. following is a letter to the editor of our local paper. i believe i know this girl. she is very capable and would be asset to any nursing staff.


    last updated: december 14, 2006, 05:15:26 am pst
    [font=times]i find it ridiculous that a large institute such as modesto junior college only offers one nursing class a semester.
    [font=times]i am an emergency room technician trying to become a nurse. for the fall semester, i was 44th on the waiting list; others
    [font=times]who have been waiting longer were behind me. some, like me, teach nursing students how to do their jobs. now i am
    [font=times]84th on the waiting list. with more than six years experience in the medical field, i cannot get into the program.
    [font=times]there are shortages in the nursing field and not very many deserving people can get in. at some schools, unless you live
    [font=times]in their community you are told not to apply. how fair is that? we need more classes, not fewer.
    [font=times]lara kelly
    [font=times]modesto


    i was wondering if there are any groups fighting this selection process or is this a david vs goliath type of scenario? it just seems like some group somewhere should be doing something! if any one knows of such a group, please let me know.
    hello tim,

    i am a male student also looking to get into the nursing program at mjc. i really do not mean to offend but, my question is why are you trying to change something that has been in place for a long time? you don't have to apply at mjc. i am wondering where did you apply to the first time that changed their selection process on you? because i know for a fact that mjc has had the lottery for quite a few years now, my wife is an rn and graduated from mjc almost a year ago and she had to go through the lottery as well. just wondering why make a big deal out of something that is not worth making a big deal over. i really respect you for the job you are trying to pursue, but there are plenty of other places that don't have a lottery system, but they also have a few years on the wait list as well, so just take what you can get is all im saying.
  5. by   Tim1957
    I had to read your post over and I am glad I did. The timeframe you talk about them changing the selection process is just about right. I have been there for a little over three years and it was sometime in my second semester that it changed. Please understand That it took me longer because I was not always able to attend full time due to the sickness of my close friend and roomate. I had already comimtted myself at the time and with my money situation it was immpossible to "Just Move" as you put it. If I was the only one I had to think about, I would sought a different school. Sometimes your choices are very limited. UNderstand I do think this is a big deal. Anytime you put a honors student on equal basis with someone who has just squeaked by with a 75% in competition for a place in a nursing school, that is to someone like me a very big deal. And to make matters worse, this is a private lottery without any public oversight. You might disagree with how I feel about it, but I do find this system unfair. Merit should be what counts and merit only.
  6. by   Tim1957
    Quote from FockerInTraining
    Hello Tim,

    I am a male student also looking to get into the nursing program at MJC. I really do not mean to offend but, my question is why are you trying to change something that has been in place for a long time? You don't have to apply at MJC. I am wondering where did you apply to the first time that changed their selection process on you? Because I know for a fact that MJC has had the lottery for quite a few years now, my wife is an RN and graduated from MJC almost a year ago and she had to go through the lottery as well. Just wondering why make a big deal out of something that is not worth making a big deal over. I really respect you for the job you are trying to pursue, but there are plenty of other places that don't have a lottery system, but they also have a few years on the wait list as well, so just take what you can get is all Im saying.

    OH and Focker

    I took the time to read your other postings. One of the basic qualities that a nurse should have are sense of compassion and tact. You were a little more tactful in your posting to me, but I think you still have room for improvement. Good Luck to you.
  7. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Tim1957
    Anytime you put a honors student on equal basis with someone who has just squeaked by with a 75% in competition for a place in a nursing school, that is to someone like me a very big deal. And to make matters worse, this is a private lottery without any public oversight. You might disagree with how I feel about it, but I do find this system unfair. Merit should be what counts and merit only.
    Believe me Tim, I agree with you totally. There is no question that you are totally right about this. You have every right to feel the way you do. I am on your side, but Focker has a point in one sense.

    If you're expecting nursing school to be fair, it just isn't. The unfairness is not going to stop here. You are going to see many unfair things as you go through the program. They are the gatekeepers and they can pretty much do what they want.

    Probably the most unfair thing I dealt with was the teachers testing us on material they never gave us. It drove me absolutely crazy.

    Finally, I realized that I had to quit spending time and energy complaining and trying to fight it by challenging test questions, etc., and spend more of my energy figuring out how to beat the teachers at the their own game.

    So I started to study NCLEX guides in addition to the books, lecture and everything else to try to fill in the gaps, and it helped me a lot. I also figured out that I should always get notes from the previous class since, inevitably, teachers would forget to tell us things they told other classes but, nevertheless, would show up on test questions.

    In hindsight, I realized that if I had done all of this a lot sooner, instead of worrying about how unfair it all was, I would have been much better off.

    Again, I am not dismissing your arguments or how you feel. I totally sympathize with what's happened to you here. But, sometimes it's just better to accept the unfairness of the situation, especially if you can't change it, and deal with it the best that you can.

    If I may make a suggestion here: the best thing you can do right now is start studying with the free time you have because you won't have much free time once school starts. If you can, get the syllabus for the program either from the school itself or your friend who's starting now.

    You mentioned you're having some trouble talking with your friend right now because they're starting before you are but ... if you can set aside your personal feelings ... you might realize that having a friend in the class before you can also be a tremendous advantage.

    I had a friend who started before me, and she was a lifesaver. She always told me what to expect from different teachers, how to study, what kinds of test questions to expect ... all kinds of pointers ... which helped me tremendously because she had already been through it. She also gave me notes from her classes which was enormously helpful.

    I guess what I'm saying is: try to take advantage of an otherwise bad situation. You now have an opportunity to get a head start and that can give you an enormous advantage down the line.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 16, '06
  8. by   RN34TX
    Quote from lizz
    Finally, I realized that I had to quit spending time and energy complaining and trying to fight it by challenging test questions, etc., and spend more of my energy figuring out how to beat the teachers at the their own game.

    So I started to study NCLEX guides in addition to the books, lecture and everything else to try to fill in the gaps, and it helped me a lot. I also figured out that I should always get notes from the previous class since, inevitably, teachers would forget to tell us things they told other classes but, nevertheless, would show up on test questions.

    In hindsight, I realized that if I had done all of this a lot sooner, instead of worrying about how unfair it all was, I would have been much better off.
    That was absolutely excellent advice that sounds like a well-seasoned nursing student who has been through it all.

    That is exactly how I got through some of my LVN classes as well as A&P and micro for my RN.

    Start challenging test questions and start questioning whether or not the material was covered in class.

    It works.
  9. by   RN34TX
    Quote from lizz
    If you're expecting nursing school to be fair, it just isn't. The unfairness is not going to stop here. You are going to see many unfair things as you go through the program. They are the gatekeepers and they can pretty much do what they want.
    So very true.

    If there is one thing I've learned from LVN school that carried me into prep for EC's CPNE, it's the simple fact that you need to learn how to play their game in order to survive.

    Many many posts on this board will proclaim how unfair nursing school is whether it be clinical rotations or clinical exams.

    I get tired of people who, once they've passed, will talk about how fair and reasonable their programs were, and dismiss anyone who says otherwise as a bitter failed student.

    I played the game and passed but will always be quick to say how very unfair it can be with instructors or examiners having a "Gatekeeper" power complex.
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from RN34TX
    Start challenging test questions and start questioning whether or not the material was covered in class.

    It works.
    Perhaps I wasn't clear but, I was actually saying that challenging test questions was a waste of time.

    I think I got the teachers to give in on maybe two out of 50 test questions I challenged the whole time I was in school. The rest they didn't give on at all, even if I could prove that they didn't give us the material in class or in the books.

    So, that's when I started studying the NCLEX guides, since they obviously weren't going to teach us everything we needed to know. That's actually what helped me the most ... and getting notes from other classes.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 16, '06
  11. by   81ke83
    Don't give up hope, my school's waiting list is 2-3 years. You need a 2.5 to apply, you get your number and wait. I didn't think I would start until January 2008. Our school received a grant from a hospital organization and the through the state of California. The criteria for acceptance to this program is having a GPA over 3.5. The kicker is that your english grades had to be A's. All those people that only had a 2.5 are still waiting. 48 of us applied and they took the 12 highest. I just finished my first semester. Don't give up, I have a friend that is 62 that is finishing up the program.
    Don't give up hope. I do think the most difficult part for me is that my study partner didn't get in. He had been sick the semester before and took an incomplete in english. So he wasn't eligible. He is still waiting in the long line.
    Good luck to you.
    Kay
  12. by   dijaqrn
    I posted a new thread about a new partnership between LA valley College and Valley Presbyterian hospital, if you're near the San Fernando Valley this merits looking into, there was a full page ad in the LA Times this week. good luck to all of you who are waiting!
  13. by   Tim1957
    Thanks for the info in re LA college.

    And the rest of you are right. The milk is spillt, it is spoiled, it is time to move on. I will let someone else clean up the mess. I am done talking about this.
    Last edit by Tim1957 on Dec 16, '06

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