RN new grad UNPAID residency program

rebean · Jun 22, 2009, 06:59 PM

The other things I know about this program- and I am by no means part of the construction. 1) it is only for graduates of this particular community college. 2) Because you have to be post-licensure, you can't start until the semester after the semester you graduate-ie, the first class starts in June for the people who graduated in December, the second class will start fall for those who graduated in May. So the argument has been made that it is an opportunity to refresh clinical skills for people who have been out of school for 6 months without a job.

Problem is- even internal employees at the hospitals are not eligible for nurse positions unless they complete the residency first.

I hope I have a job before fall.

*jjjoy* · Jun 22, 2009, 07:48 PM

I do see the inherent problems with unpaid residencies. I'd argue for something like physician residency. Where the pay isn't equal to that of experienced physicians (or nurses in this case) since they don't have the same responsibilities, but they do get SOMETHING for their work as they ARE contributing to patient care. If it were to become a REQUIRED experience, as opposed to an option for those who WANT the extra experience, then that would mean a major shift in the "steps" to becoming a nurse. I think it could be a good thing if done carefully but I know there would be plenty of resistance to it, with good reason, within the nursing community.

If most new grads truly were prepared to function after just 6-8 weeks of precepting, then I'd tell the hospitals to suck it up and pay the new nurse regular nurse wages. But the strongest new grad programs out there have stretched new grad programs up to 6 months to accomodate the learning needs of the new grads. I can see why hospitals are looking for more cost effective ways to "bridge the gap" between school and real world bedside nursing. As it is, too many new grads don't stay at their first job because they either quit from the stress of it or "don't progress quickly enough" and get let go. After another one or two rounds of new hire orientation, many eventually build up the experience, confidence and competence to "survive" on their own off of orientation, with a full-patient load.

I'm sure there are many new grads out there who don't need such extended preceptorships. However, for those new grads who DO need more than 6-8 weeks to "bridge the gap" between the nowhere-near-reality student clinical experiences of some students and a full-fledged RN position, there currently aren't any options. I would've welcomed some kind of intermediary clinical experience to build up my competence and confidence as a nurse before applying for full-fledged acute care nursing jobs that fresh-out-of-school I didn't feel anywhere near capable of handling.

BabyLady · Jun 22, 2009, 08:19 PM

It's legal for ONE reason: It's part of your school.

They are calling it a nurse residency program, but technically, it will count as a perceptorship, which is clinical hours required by your state.

The hospitals, can set whatever hiring criteria that they want.

They can charge you for the background check for the same reason...it's part of your school...ours did the same thing.

100% legal.

Bronx_RN · Jun 22, 2009, 08:23 PM

I thought clinical hours and preceptorships were for student and graduate nurses?

Originally Posted by BabyLady

It's legal for ONE reason: It's part of your school.

They are calling it a nurse residency program, but technically, it will count as a perceptorship, which is clinical hours required by your state.

The hospitals, can set whatever hiring criteria that they want.

They can charge you for the background check for the same reason...it's part of your school...ours did the same thing.

100% legal.

lindarn · Jun 22, 2009, 09:07 PM

Would someone explain to me, WHAT OTHER HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL, GRADUATES FROM THEIR PROGRAM, AND THEN IS EXPECTED TO WORK FOR FREE??

Physicians are required to do an internship before starting to practice independantly, PTs, OTs, SP, PHARMACISTS, ALL DO INTERNSHIPS BEORE THEY START INDEPENDANT PRACTICE!!And they are ALL PAID FOR THEIR INTERNSHIPS!!

Why are nurses expected to work for free after graduation? I do believe that ALL NEW GRADS, need to have an internship before they are let go to practice independantly. BUT, that does not mean that they should work for free.

I agree- take it to the Labor Board. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

Freedom42 · Jun 23, 2009, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by BabyLady

It's legal for ONE reason: It's part of your school.

They are calling it a nurse residency program, but technically, it will count as a perceptorship, which is clinical hours required by your state.

The hospitals, can set whatever hiring criteria that they want.

They can charge you for the background check for the same reason...it's part of your school...ours did the same thing.

100% legal.

How can it be "part of your school" if it occurs after you graduate, after you're licensed, and it's not required of all students? Yes, we all have to complete clinical hours, but that's a condition of graduation -- something the OP has already met.

In this case, the institutions are not establishing "hiring criteria," only establishing under what circumstances it will allow a licensed RN to work without pay. Federal law is clear: An institution cannot use unpaid labor to displace paid employees. If a new grad is used to cover someone's vacation or leave of absence and is not paid, that's illegal. If someone else is denied overtime because free labor is used, that's illegal.

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for hospitals offering extended training programs for new grads. But unless the new grad is closely supervised and does not work independently, the institution benefits from a free labor pool. The med school interns at my hospital start at $45 k. They're not expected to work for free.

BabyLady · Jun 23, 2009, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Freedom42

How can it be "part of your school" if it occurs after you graduate, after you're licensed, and it's not required of all students? Yes, we all have to complete clinical hours, but that's a condition of graduation -- something the OP has already met.

In this case, the institutions are not establishing "hiring criteria," only establishing under what circumstances it will allow a licensed RN to work without pay. Federal law is clear: An institution cannot use unpaid labor to displace paid employees. If a new grad is used to cover someone's vacation or leave of absence and is not paid, that's illegal. If someone else is denied overtime because free labor is used, that's illegal.

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for hospitals offering extended training programs for new grads. But unless the new grad is closely supervised and does not work independently, the institution benefits from a free labor pool. The med school interns at my hospital start at $45 k. They're not expected to work for free.

I misread the post...I got caught up on the part where it's taught through the community college and not through the hospital.

However, it's STILL LEGAL.

The students appear to sign up for the 3 month course at the community college post-graduation....it doesn't appear to be through the hospital.

The hospital appears to have made the decision not to hire new grad nurses unless you have had this "course"....hospitals can do this if they wish.

However, laws in every state require the student to be oriented to the hospital (or any job for that matter) and PAID for that orientation. They cannot legally bypass that requirement as it has to be documented.

The only thing that a hospital will "save" is that the orientation/perceptorship period should be shorter, thereby saving in non-productive hours.

It doesn't appear that during this period of time she is listed as an employee of the hospital, but instead, as a student taking a course through the CC.

If that is the case, then yes, the hospital can do that, as long as they are not an employee on the hospital system's payroll and listed as working without pay...THAT is how they are legally getting around it.

hope3456 · Jun 23, 2009, 10:01 AM

Just a sign of the 'new grad glut' that will only get worse in the next couple years IMHO. I read that California has increased their nsg school capacity statewide by over 60%. It all comes down to 'supply and demand.'

RNgonewild · Jun 24, 2009, 02:21 AM

Wow what a crock. A win-win for both the schools and the hospitals. I can't believe Kaiser nurses, who are unionized would go for this. And what about student loans starting up 6 months after graduation? Are those payments able to be delayed? What is nursing coming to?

BabyLady · Jun 24, 2009, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by RNgonewild

Wow what a crock. A win-win for both the schools and the hospitals. I can't believe Kaiser nurses, who are unionized would go for this. And what about student loans starting up 6 months after graduation? Are those payments able to be delayed? What is nursing coming to?

I sure as heck don't agree with the practice.

I think it's a horrible message to send to the new nurses in the community: We don't think you are worth investing in....so we want you to invest in your training on your own time.