Stop applying to the USA

GrassFire · Dec 1, 2008

Qualities , partitions , fences , gates are very important for U.S healthcare system as well.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Dec 1, 2008

"Thankyou for agreeing with me. **I'M** not comparing myself with that - several posters on this thread have chosen to lump all "foreign" nurses in one basket as undereducated, inexperienced morons. No, you may not have used those words, but the implications were clear."
Well, I have to say that we have our own way of thinking. If you think the message implies the way you perceive it. Then be it. The truth hurts. Posts that are published here may sometimes seem to be harsh, but these are realities.
Yes, to draw generalization is quite dangerous and might attract critical comments from several members. But the truth lies in every words spoken is better yet appreciated than denying the real happenings taking place.
I suggest each and every Neophyt nurse out there, especially to my fellow filipinos, to set forth and gain good nursing experience in our country first before ever thinking of coming to USA, or any other place. Experience is a good source of confidence. I wonder how courageous young filipino nurses nowadays planning to come over here and practice nursing without having sufficient nursing experience. You are prone to unsafe nursing practice and might put americans in danger. You might as well be in danger when you'll commit mistakes due to lack of experience.
But again, there are also nurses with good nursing knowledge and skills and had pratice nursing for years already. These nurses are welcome. But again, with economic crisis going on, with news of job offers getting cancelled, with retrogression set. Things wouldn't be as easy as years and years ago.
Filipino members of this site may hate me for this. But I stand with what I perceived is right. And since this is a forum where opinion is highly being respected, might as well share my thoughts.
God Bless America.

This is the most direct-to-the-point, honest, and objective post in this thread. Thanks for posting it.

lost_stranger · Dec 1, 2008

The message that Philippines should improve its standards of nursing education so that the quality of foreign nurses applying to US improves seems highly presumptuous to me. While many members here seem to have strong opinions about who should be eligible to become a nurse in US, the US has well established standards for foreign nurses applying to work. If the present criterion is unsatisfactory, then changes need to be made at that end.

The truth remains that the present lull in the number of foreign nurses coming to US is not due to the worsening quality of foreign nurses but is due to a backlog of visa applicants.

The Visa Bulletins show that at the present rate anyone applying now for a visa would have to wait for years and it will be definitly prudent for a new applicant to accept this worst case scenario while planning for the future, yet not even an immigration expert can authoritatively say that it will take 5 years or 7 years for a foreign nurse to get to US. There has been changes in the past and there might be in the future. Retrogression is an issue that affects all employment based GC applicants and not only nurses.

yoginurse2b · Dec 1, 2008

I agree with ghillbert that many people here in this forum are xenophobic. Many foreign nurses come to America for one reason - to live in a better place. I am not Filipino, but I can tell you that, coming from a country that discriminates me because of sexual orientation and race, the only way I can think of is to escape to another country. But this is not what I am here for. I am here because I have a dream to fulfill...a dream to become someone who can contribute to the society. I work hard to achieve this dream, and sometimes, it's sickening to hear comments that discourage others to achieve what they want. I feel no one should be discriminated against, especially those who work hard and are here legally. It's OK to give realistic comment, but putting a certain race in a spot because their passing rate is low is just plain ignorant.

So enough of this **. Give every one a break. We know the retrogression is still going on and most of us probably end up going home. But we don't appreciate you telling us that we are worthless.

Thank you for listening.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 1, 2008

The message that Philippines should improve its standards of nursing education so that the quality of foreign nurses applying to US improves seems highly presumptuous to me. While many members here seem to have strong opinions about who should be eligible to become a nurse in US, the US has well established standards for foreign nurses applying to work. If the present criterion is unsatisfactory, then changes need to be made at that end.
The truth remains that the present lull in the number of foreign nurses coming to US is not due to the worsening quality of foreign nurses but is due to a backlog of visa applicants.
The Visa Bulletins show that at the present rate anyone applying now for a visa would have to wait for years and it will be definitly prudent for a new applicant to accept this worst case scenario while planning for the future, yet not even an immigration expert can authoritatively say that it will take 5 years or 7 years for a foreign nurse to get to US. There has been changes in the past and there might be in the future. Retrogression is an issue that affects all employment based GC applicants and not only nurses.

Not entirely correct. Sure the initial visa assignment is based on the number of visas issued that year, but when we are seeing an increase in the number of nurses that are actually getting their contracts cancelled once they arrive here due to lack of skills; then there is a problem.

For those from India, it is retrogressed back several years from the others and yes, it is because there are other professions that are included. But it still remains a fact that things are not moving as one expected and with the major downturn in the economy in the US right now, it is expected to actually get much worse. When American nurses are being laid off or are unemployed, jobs must first go to them, not others from foreign countries. This is the same in your country as well.

PhillyRN82 · Dec 1, 2008

Your honors:

I really appreciate the way you rebut all those comments raised by me, moderators and some members of this house. But I still see things the way they are. And for someone who is here in US already, for someone who is really observant to what is taking place,and for someone who can sense and feel the impact of this economic crisis, PLAYING blind is considered a sin.

We are not degrading foreign trained professionals in here. As a matter of fact, we support them in ways we could. If one can come over here to work and achieve his/her dreams, then we are happy all the way. But whenever crisis like this happens, we also have to be true with our words.

It would be very hard for someone to dream BIG, when chances are slim. So much more like killing oneself sticking with a belief that is almost unbelievable.

We speak, we let our voices be heard precisely because we know something. And that something is precisely the TRUTH of the matter being discussed.

We dont want to put ones dream to an end. But this serious phenomenon we do experience now, is like telling us to stop dreaming for something that is way to hard to be achieved.

Multi-factorial problems like this will make everyone's dream close to a nightmare. So beware of what you wish/dream for. You might stumble...and never learn to stand up straight again.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 1, 2008

This thread was addressed to those from the Philippines, it was not addressed to those from other countries. Taking this thread off topic is what caused everything else to be happening here.

It is not an issue with anyone's training at all at this time, but what is actually going on in the US in respect to visas. Pure and simple. And when an economy is bad for its own citizens, then one cannot expect the country to open its doors to bring in more nurses when US nurses are getting laid off and there are hiring freezes in place.

It is great that someone wishes to work in another country, but it is not a requirement for any country that they have to put others ahead of their own citizens and this is what is happening now. Not sure if you have read about all of the lay-offs and hiring freezes that are happening now and are expected to get worse as time goes on.

RNGrad2006 · Dec 1, 2008

I think there are two issues here.
The first is that is DOES get frustrating to see thread after thread asking the same questions about getting a work visa in the US when the retrogression has been mentioned over and over again, and it has been made plain that US nurses have first dibs on the jobs here. The nursing shortage isn't real. The desire not to pay nurses is.
The second issue is what I can only call the xenophobia of those who claim that nursing programs abroad are not as good as American ones. There is nothing to back that up except uninformed prejudice. I challenge those making these assertions to show me any peer-reviewed documentation that proves foreign-trained, particularly Phillipine, nurses are inferior. Not anecdotes, not op-ed pieces, but an evidence-based piece that satisfactorily proves it.

I dont have an evidence based piece but in the Canadian nursing forums there have been many posts made by RNs that work with recent new grad nurses from the Philippines that they are finding they are not up to the skill level of a Canadian RN. This is based in Alberta Canada and they have gone to clinical competency testing to ensure that the nurses are competent at a new grad level. A theory based exam does not always indicate the lack of competency. From what I have read because the educational system in the Philippines is different than the US/Canada and only goes to I believe our equivalent of 10th or 11th grade for high school a BSN from the Philippines is not at the same level as a US or Canadian educated BSN. I always find it interesting to see what is happening in Canada. The nurses that are more newly educated from the Philippines are deemed to be clinically more at the LPN level from what I have read. I enjoy reading posts both in the International and Canadian forums to just keep up with what is happening. I work with a lot of nurses from the Philippines that are excellent but from what I have read it is more recently that there has come into question the competence of the nursing schools in the Philippines. And that is likely what the other poster is referring to.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 1, 2008

This is hot off the presses just now, and should be a real eye opener for some that did not want to beleive what is happening here right now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081201/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street

This is from the Wall Street Journal today. Please take time to get a realistic view of what is actually happening here now, not what an employer or recruiter is promising.

Just not going to be happening.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 1, 2008

I actually recently received documentation from the Philippines about a school that actually paid someone off in the PRC to falsify records there for their students.

Their students are now in the process of having their licenses revoked.

Nurses that graduated from there years ago are wonderful and their training was exceptional, unfortunately, that is no longer the case for many of their programs. They have schools still open that barely have even a couple of students passing their licensing exam, in the US or other countries and they would immediately be put out of business. The next issue is having about 500,000 unemployed nurses there, so when one wishes to come to the US, most are doing so without any experience on top of being out of school for several years. This does not make for good things to happen even in the best of situations.

This is the point that I am trying to make here. When we see nursing programs sprouting up all over Manila and IT schools suddenly going into the nursing business but they have no idea of specific requirements that is bad. And when clinical instructors in many programs do not have any of their own clinical work experience before they begin to teach. This always tells me one thing. Your real training begins when you actually begin to work, that is where you are going to learn all types of very resourceful information, but if you have nothing to build on, chances are that the employer in another country is not going to keep you and that is what I am seeing directly. When the foundation is not what it should be, then there are only excuses being made and nothing being done to solve the problem. This is something that the Philippine government needs to take notice of and address, it is not for other countries to have to worry about.

And yes, the RNs that went to Alberta, they are working in the role of the LPN; none of them had their skills assessed as being that of an RN. So there is much that we are speaking of. That a student was able to pass the NCLEX exam or even the CRNE tells me nothing about their skill level at all. But not having inserted a foley catheter or an NG tube during a full four years of training speaks plenty. These are basic nursing skills that each and every nurse should be adept at when they finish their program. Starting to work as an RN is not the time to be learning basic skills that are assumeed that one has experience with. Sure, IVs can be restricted, but everything else should be very wide open and learned. Including drawing up meds from a vial and giving an OM injection.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 1, 2008

And we had a period of time about 18 months ago, when there was a new wave of graduates from the Philippines that had never written the NLE or the NCLEX exam, but came here routinely boasting that they were from the Philippines, so that everyone wanted them to work for them. And that they were the best nurses that there were. But funny thing is that they were basing what they were stating on the reputations of the first nurses that were coming over here and their skills and what the older nurses have built up the reputation to be. However, when one's training is not even like they had in earlier times, how can that claim be made? No substance to it at all.

That is what people here should be focusing on, how to get things better there; not which way can they get to the US. We still see posters coming here that have come here with a tourist visa and expect to be able to remain and work. Yet, they have no idea of the retrogression or think that it does not apply to them and that they can take cuts in front of everyone else that is waiting. Most were also coming right after graduating and thankfully, many of the states are now requiring the local license as well. And the worst part of it is that almost all are from the Philippines, not other countries.

There just is no excuse for any of that.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Dec 1, 2008

If some Phillipino nurses are so badly unprepared I am really sorry for them. I can hear the hope of these folks just reading their posts, and that unscrupulous people would take advantage of that, and steal from them, is deplorable. Because that is what is happening.

I have seen schools advertising for training aides and LPN's, obviously preying on the dreams of people who believe what educators tell them, and who do not know that that level of training will not gain them entree to the US - not that any will, with the retrogression on.