NP vs PA vs CNS - page 2

I am considering going for further education. I am an RN w/ a bachelor's degree (non-nursing) and a AA in nursing. I have 6 years experience, 3 years in cardiac acute care (stepdown). I would... Read More

  1. Visit  core0 profile page
    0
    Quote from kguill975
    Getting back to the OP question:

    If you need to work part-time or full-time while in school, it's only possible with NP. You may be able to work per diem in PA school, but I don't know. (Any PAs can chime in on this?)

    I honestly would have gone the PA route, only because of the surgical rotations involved in their programs. As of now, there are a few NP programs that are now offering surgical rotations as well. If you're considering a surgical specialty, then it may be a good idea to look into PA programs, but if not, there's no real difference between the two roles.
    There used to be a couple of programs where you could go part time the first year (essentially split the first year into two years). I don't know if they still exist. The second year you will generally put in more than 2200 hours which is pretty much a full time job all the while studying for boards.
  2. Visit  LadysSolo profile page
    2
    I work as an NP, and have colleagues that are NPs and PAs. Frankly, I feel that we are pretty much equivalent in knowledge. I did a "diploma to Master's" program. They "suggested/recommended" that we not work during the program, but since no one was volunteering to support my family, I worked. It was NOT easy, but possible. And my state CEU requirement is nothing compared to my national certification requirement.
    antania31 and BCgradnurse like this.
  3. Visit  kguill975 profile page
    2
    Quote from IcySageNurse

    You can work during NP programs because they are less intensive..
    It has nothing to do with intensity. It has everything to do with what is offered by the program. Just like BSN school, most PA programs don't give you a choice of taking one class at a time (i.e. part-time). If I could have taken one class at a time at any of the two PA programs near me, I would have done it. Unfortunately, I'm not independently wealthy and I have a kid to take care of. If you think PA programs are more intensive, go for it. What's stopping you?
    BCgradnurse and SoldierNurse22 like this.
  4. Visit  m0lasses profile page
    0
    You might consider the prerequisites in your search. Where I live, the PA program prereqs are the same for med school, while the NP prereqs are not. This is a factor in the length of your program. Also, my friends in PA school have less choice in their clinical locations, with some being sent out of state and even across the country depending on specialty with no expenses covered. University if Washington has CNS, DNP, And MSN programs for RNs without BSNs that can be completed mostly online and either ft or pt. Good luck.
  5. Visit  lpn2rnSoon profile page
    4
    It is quite obvious why PA schools require more clinical hours than NP school. A person can do the PA route with no medical experience, thus having to be taught how to do everything from drawing blood to taking blood pressure. Most NP school require a person to have an RN license and most like a BSN degree, thus these applicants already know how to do the more the more mundane tasks. Also we all know that we actually get our solid education on the floor working. Books and clinically are great but nothing beats a good working experience.
    goldenmom321, pghnursedjg, antania31, and 1 other like this.
  6. Visit  elkpark profile page
    1
    Quote from lpn2rnSoon
    It is quite obvious why PA schools require more clinical hours than NP school. A person can do the PA route with no medical experience, thus having to be taught how to do everything from drawing blood to taking blood pressure. Most NP school require a person to have an RN license and most like a BSN degree, thus these applicants already know how to do the more the more mundane tasks. Also we all know that we actually get our solid education on the floor working. Books and clinically are great but nothing beats a good working experience.
    "Most" NP schools? I haven't done any official investigating, but there are, as already noted, large numbers of direct entry NP programs that take individuals with no nursing background or degree at all and turn them into advanced practice nurses. My graduate program combined experienced-RN students with the DE students, and I can tell you for a fact that the DE students, most of whom had little or no healthcare background or experience of any kind, and certainly no nursing experience, had the same number of clinical hours that we experienced RNs did. And my school had a much larger number of DE students than experienced-RN students.
    on eagles wings likes this.
  7. Visit  myelin profile page
    1
    Quote from elkpark
    "Most" NP schools? I haven't done any official investigating, but there are, as already noted, large numbers of direct entry NP programs that take individuals with no nursing background or degree at all and turn them into advanced practice nurses. My graduate program combined experienced-RN students with the DE students, and I can tell you for a fact that the DE students, most of whom had little or no healthcare background or experience of any kind, and certainly no nursing experience, had the same number of clinical hours that we experienced RNs did. And my school had a much larger number of DE students than experienced-RN students.
    Right, but those DE students went through RN school and clinicals, even if they didn't work as RNs. Many PA programs take people with literally no healthcare background at all.
    pghnursedjg likes this.
  8. Visit  nomadcrna profile page
    2
    There is absolutely no difference in PAs and NPs. It all comes down to the person. I can also say the same about physicians/NP/PA. After the NP/PA has been out of school for a few years anyway. They all tend to meet in the middle.

    On the recert exam. It is totally worthless and some physician organizations have actually file a lawsuit to do away with these. There is no evidence it makes you a better clinician. Unfortunately, CRNAs are heading down this ridiculous path. It is ONLY a way for the recert folks to make money.

    So don't get start on the which is better because neither are better. Neither put out better clinicians.

    On the surgical rotations, I've seen many, many PAs come through the OR on rotation where they pretty much do very little. I let them come up and teach them to intubate and airway management but they are not there long enough to really learn much. Don't let that one rotation have any bearing on your decision. Surgery specialty and first assist will be learned after you finish school.
    PCURN-BSN and traumaRUs like this.
  9. Visit  elkpark profile page
    0
    Quote from myelin
    Right, but those DE students went through RN school and clinicals, even if they didn't work as RNs. Many PA programs take people with literally no healthcare background at all.
    The "basic RN" portion of DE programs tends to be the v. bare minimum to get people into the graduate portion of the program. At my school, the DE students weren't even eligible for licensure until they had completed the first year of the MSN portion of the program (their second year), because they didn't have enough clinical hours to qualify for licensure in the first year and the school somehow got away with counting their clinical hours from the second year of the program (which had nothing to do with generalist nuring practice) toward the number needed for RN licensure.
  10. Visit  myelin profile page
    1
    Quote from elkpark
    The "basic RN" portion of DE programs tends to be the v. bare minimum to get people into the graduate portion of the program. At my school, the DE students weren't even eligible for licensure until they had completed the first year of the MSN portion of the program (their second year), because they didn't have enough clinical hours to qualify for licensure in the first year and the school somehow got away with counting their clinical hours from the second year of the program (which had nothing to do with generalist nuring practice) toward the number needed for RN licensure.
    Well all I can say is that it varies. It sounds to me like you might be talking about Yale's program? It's funny, but one reason why I didn't go through with applying to Yale was the fact that they do not become RNs before starting the NP portion. It just seemed strange to me and I wanted rigorous training in the fundamentals. My program is quite intense, and we actually get more clinical hours (1000+) than people in many BSN or ADN programs... which is why some still manage to get hired as RNs in an extremely competitive market, when we are technically "diploma" nurses (no ADN or BSN). The program has an excellent reputation. I wouldn't take your experience with DE programs and paint all of them with the same brush. However, I do appreciate hearing that some programs apparently are getting away with crappy RN training. That's really unfortunate.

    I still stand by my original point - which is that becoming a RN and getting that experience (though limited) is better than nothing. Direct entry PA programs take people with nothing at all.
    pghnursedjg likes this.
  11. Visit  Swellz profile page
    3
    I thought PA schools required a certain amount of contact hours with patients? The future-PAs I know were working as EMTs or MAs to get hours before applying.
  12. Visit  myelin profile page
    0
    Quote from Swellz
    I thought PA schools required a certain amount of contact hours with patients? The future-PAs I know were working as EMTs or MAs to get hours before applying.
    It used to be that way. Now a lot of direct entry PA programs exist that will take people with no healthcare work experience.
  13. Visit  ClevelandOHRN profile page
    3
    IcySageNurse is correct, once again.

    The barriers to entry to PA school are greater than the barriers to entry to NP school. This, in and of itself, will keep PAs higher paid and in more demand than NPs.

    Unless nursing quickly acts to standardize NP education and entry requirements, I believe PA school would provide OriolesMagic the safest long-term return on investment.
    libbyliberal, icecreamcake, and hanami like this.

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